Ridgway22
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Posts posted by Ridgway22
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On 12/21/2020 at 2:10 PM, Frobby said:
The stats don’t show him as a poor OFer at all. Honestly, I don’t remember his defense one way or the other.
As an off-the-wall reference to defensive prowess, Strat-O-Matic Baseball (for those that aren't familiar) is a card and dice baseball simulation (and now a computer version) that produces realistic results. Its been around since about 1960, and I replayed the Orioles seasons from about 1971-1985, then real life took over. I still blame Strat for an approximate 1.00 reduction in my overall high school and college GPA's.
Strat-O-Matic defensive ratings are 1, 2, 3, or 4, with a ratting of 1 being gold glove / very good, and 4 representing poor. So, Brooks and Belanger were consistently 1's at their respective positions, and when Boog and Trumbo played outfield, they were 4's, etc. (note fielding rating of 5 was added later)
Outfield arms are measured from +5 to -6, with guys like Clemente and Dwight Evans getting the -5's, and Mickey Rivers and Johnny Damon with +2's and +3's.
I went back and checked Merv's defensive ratings for 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, and they were remarkably consistent for each season:
Left Field 2
Right Field 2
Center Field 3His arm was rated -1 for 1969, 70, 71, and -2 for 1972
So, using this single reference source, he was an above average outfielder capable of playing all three outfield positions, with a slightly above average arm.
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6 hours ago, Ruzious said:
No. Rettenmund was a good player on some of the great O's teams, but he's not an O's HOFer. He's a level below Don Buford - who did make it. Merv was a good hitter but a relatively poor OFer, and he was a platoon player for a lot of his tenure with the O's.
Just curious, what is the "poor OFer" based on. As just an idiot fan, I have no first hand knowledge, especially for outfielders from the 60's / 70's. However, his hindsight analytical ratings support being above average, and as crazy as it might seem, his strat-o-matic card ratings are overall positive.
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Out of curiosity, tried to find each team's hall of fame, but there is zero standardization. But if I'm reading it correctly, the O's Hall of Fame has 77 members, which include non-players like Fred Manfra and Riche Bancells. The Cincinnati Reds have 89 the Philadelphia Phillies have 66, the Red Sox 89, no idea about non-players on the other lists. (non-exhaustive search)
Some teams apparently do not even have a team HOF or equivalent.
It looks like the "Oriole Advocates" run the O's HOF, which was created in 1977. Doesn't appear to be any real "criteria" for induction.
http://www.orioleadvocates.org/orioles-hall-of-fame.html
From the page:
The regular Hall of Fame Committee consists of a small group of media members and Advocates appointed by the current Advocate president. The committee creates a ballot containing the leading candidates for election to the Hall of Fame. Ballots are mailed to prominent media members, members of the Oriole Hall of Fame, members of the Oriole Front Office, selected Baltimore baseball figures and eligible Advocate members . The nominee receiving the most votes, but at least 60% of the votes cast, shall be elected to membership in the Hall of Fame.
Trivia: in the MLB HOF there is a PLAYER inducted who only played two seasons in the MLB, going 21-22 with a 2.78 ERA, Candy Cummings. He was elected in by the Veteran's committee in 1939, apparently he is credited with inventing the curveball.
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3 hours ago, Sports Guy said:
Well the standards are so low anymore, so why not?
For the Major League HOF, yes, not even a discussion. But for the O's franchise HOF, his numbers really stand up under modern scrutiny, compared to those already inducted. He had very strong OBP was a good defensive outfielder, and had some speed... he was a running back at Ball State and drafted by the Dallas Cowboys.
He played on a team with 3 sure fire ML HOF's in The Robinsons and Jim Palmer, as well as the Blair's Powell's, Buford's, etc., and was overshadowed. He never had a full-time starting role, but was very productive in the role he did play.
After a couple very good seasons, the O's shipped Frank Robinson off and gave him the full time right field job. Merv hurt his shoulder in Detroit early in the season, and tore an abdominal muscle in August. He was never the same player after that. But I would argue he was invaluable to the O's during their franchise defining 3-season run of 69-71.
After looking at the careers of the players already in the O's HOF, and looking at his stats under the modern analytical lens, I think Merv merits inclusion.
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9 hours ago, Frobby said:
I did not think Z had good command last night, but it’s premature and wrongheaded to put him in the same sentence as Daniel Cabrera, who walked 5.2 per 9 in the majors and 4.6 per 9 on the minors. Z walked 3.2 per 9 in the minors. I realize that a pitcher can have decent control but poor command, but Cabrera proved over many years that he had little idea where the ball was going, to an extent few Oriole pitchers ever had. There’s no way I’m putting Z in that category given his track record. I know that’s not exactly what you were saying, but I wouldn’t even propose it as an analogy because they are completely different types of pitchers.
(And Drungo, sorry for the Z thing but Zimmermann is a lot to type.)
Command and Control are related and overlap, but are different things. If you can throw a breaking pitch for a strike and not walk someone, that is good 'control'. If you leave it belt high in the middle of the plate, jolly good for your control, but not being able to command it in / out / up / down can get you crushed in the big leagues. Cabrera, D. had NEITHER. I did not comment on Zimm's control, but his command, which looked sharp to the first batter, but hell, he's a rookie making his first start. It's not even a very small sample size. The stuff looked good enough.
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Zimmerman's stuff, I was impressed enough. Command, quite another conversation. If he can command that stuff, I think he's okay. Good stuff, no command, see, Cabrera, D.
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8 hours ago, ArtVanDelay said:
He was great in Silence of the Lambs.
I thought Wojo looked like a hard rocker, lead singer of something like "Ancient Leviticus Ceremonies" or such. Also, today was my first look at Zimmerman, and I was thinking "why is an actor from a 70's cop show throwing out the first pitch?"
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46 minutes ago, Frobby said:
Austin Hays threw three strikes to 2B from LF today. First one beat Nick Markakis, but Hanser Alberto dropped the ball while applying the tag. Second one almost nabbed Ronald Acuña, who made a good slide and almost got tagged when his hand slipped off the bag. Third time was the charm - the throw arrived same time as Freddie Freeman who lost contact with the bag and got tagged. If anything, the third throw was the least accurate of the three, but still resulted in the runner getting tagged out. Hays came that close to getting three OF assists in one night. His arm is very impressive - both strong and accurate.
Watching the game, I was thinking they're testing Mountcastle's (rookie/ not natural position) arm. Except Mountcastle was at 1B. 2/3 should have been easy assists.
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2 hours ago, Frobby said:
The back to back outings of Akin and Kremer, and emergence of Mountcastle the last two weeks and even the short outburst of Stewart just has me feeling like maybe this team has a future.
I was trying to decide whether the giddy feeling was Akin / Kremer / Mountcastle or the extra beverage, adult, i decided to enjoy this Sunday, or a faint hint of.... joy? happiness? oh wait, it may have been optimism, which has been in short supply these last seasons.....
A couple years ago, I saw Mountcastle in the AFL, and he appeared to swing at every first pitch, barrel one once in awhile, but appeared to be easily exploitable. I had images of Adam Jones flailing at sliders in the dirt 6 inches off the plate. Blah.
But watching Ryan now, he seems to have an eye, laying off some nasty stuff, actually pretty impressive. The only thing, to my untrained eye, is that he seems to not reach the belt high, outside corner pitches, its like his bat doesn't go that far. But dang if he doesn't appear to be an outstanding breaking ball hitter, with composure, and he does not appear to be overmatched. He's taken walks, driven the ball, and has not offended anyone in left field. Color me impressed.
My optimism for Kremer and Akin are weighted down by the millstone of Mike Wright, and his first two starts back in 2015. 14.3 scoreless innings, 7 hits, 3 bb, 10 k's. We know what the next chapters of that book read like.
With the premium prospects on the horizon, some budgetary room for a couple free agents, I'm coming out of the competitive coma, slowly, but paying attention.
Maybe one more and watch the highlights.
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I was looking forward to opening day, thinking it might give a semblance of normalcy to life. I am going to watch, but now it feels like a reminder of just how tumultuous things really are. Feels surreal.
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Laurila: You mentioned Jim Palmer. I assume you know you had a lot of success against him (seven for 13, with three walks, and no strikeouts).
Buford: “Yes, I remind him of that. He doesn’t say anything.”
At the 1970 Orioles reunion at Camden, I was at the luncheon table with Jim Palmer, Roy Firestone, and a couple from Iowa. I had seen the O's vs. the Tokyo Giants in Tokyo Japan in 1971, when I was 9. (My first pro game, and the reason I became an O's fan) Before that reunion, I scoured the internet for any box scores or info I could find on their trip. The only one I found was a game in which Palmer gave up 3 homers. I mentioned it, and he remembered each of the homers, the pitch he threw, and called the park a bandbox. The man has a steel trap memory. I'd guess he remembers facing Buford....
I had a fantasy back in the day LJ Hoes would be a Buford re-incarnate. I also thought I would marry Elle Macpherson.
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5 hours ago, 25 Nuggets said:
Something I noticed is that Kjerstad is the highest rated switch-hitting prospect in the draft, and the only one that made the Fangraphs' numbers ranking / has an AV of 50 or better.
Adley Rutschman? Switch hitter.
Imagine if those two pan out, having them back-to-back in the lineup.
Ken Singleton, Eddie Murray? For some reason thought Kjerstad was lefty swinger.
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On 4/10/2020 at 5:18 AM, Frobby said:
True, and it’s not like he wasn’t a good player. Just not a great one.
Matt had a good career, but the gap between my (unrealistic, yes, probably) expectations and the reality was quite large. I don't think it helped that his rookie year was my first year with MLB.tv and the first season this West Coast dweller could see every Oriole game for the whole season. Not quite Mauer With Power, but I remember his swing seemed long and slow, and the gaudy numbers never materialized. Man, I am bored at 4.05 PST these days......
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17 hours ago, Tony-OH said:
(you have never seen politics until you deal with a men's baseball league)
Thanks for reminding me of the trauma & drama! Ugh.
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(reposted from 2018 thread)
This is a cool thread.....
Played varsity at Hueneme High School, Oxnard, California in 1980, Terry Tackett was the coach, father of the O's own Jeff Tackett. Mark Berry, Reds coach was also on that team.
Tall, lean, threw hard, decent curve, questionable command. We had a player on our team all the scouts were out to see, John Cox. However, he kept getting shelled and I would come in to clean up. Normally the scouts would vanish when he came out of the game, but one, a bird dog for the Brewers, stuck around and was drinking beers in brown paper bags with my Dad. Scout ended up writing me up and I got drafted before I graduated High School.
(Note: John Cox went on to play at Cal, where he was a teammate of Bryan Pryce, recently fired manager of the Reds. I got to know Bryan at several of John Rubinow's ProBall camps. Good dude.)
Anyway, Brewers offered a contract of no bonus money, $500/month, plus room and board on the road, Butte Montana Pioneer League.
Ended up going to Ventura Junior College (arrived the year after Brook Jacoby left to the Braves), thinking I'd dominate and raise my draft stock. Instead, pitched marginally, pitched for money in a weekend semi-pro league and shredded my shoulder pitching too many innings.
Played some softball, etc. until 2001, found an Ad in North County San Diego Newspaper for the Mens Senior Baseball League (MABL/MSBL), and decided to make a comeback in a 35+ league. Had so much fun at the MSBL World Series in Phoenix that year, decided to get rotator cuff surgery so I could pitch without pain. 2004 World Series, we lost in the playoffs to a team from Tucson with Jack Howell, who went on to win the 35+ Mountain Division. (Our team was Dream Foundation / North County Padres)
2005, we had a loaded team (I managed)... Had an ex-major leaguer who came up with the Phillies and was minor-league outfielder drafted by the Rockies and turned into a pitcher, Mike Farmer. His first Major League start (and first major league hit) came against/off Greg Maddux. (1996). We also had a former Mariners AAA pitcher named Vic Martin, who had absolutely pin-point control. Our shortstop was Jeff Bonchek, who had played A ball for the Indians. We ended up winning the 35+ Mountain that year. The next year, with much the same cast, we won the 35+ Wood American division, so I have 2 MSBL rings.
Retired a few years later when I saw a video tape of myself pitching. Ugh.Sorry for the long post. Got going and couldn't stop!
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17 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:
Have they? Bundy is 18th in all time rWAR among #4 picks, and they've been drafting since '65. He'll continue to move up for a number of years. Gausman is 16th. Only about 6-7 #4 picks have had a career as valuable as, say, Nick Markakis.
People are continuously disappointed by players who have careers in the top 25% of their draft slot. Think about it this way... Nick Markakis, had he been a #1 overall pick, would comfortably be among the top half of all players drafted there. As an actual #7, he's the fourth-best player ever taken there. Ben McDonald was a better-than-average #1.
Good info, and a very sobering reality.
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On 11/11/2019 at 10:07 AM, Frobby said:
Thanks for these. I’m really fascinated by Dan Hammer. Here’s a guy who had a 6.15 ERA and 1.67 WHIP in college, and we draft him and he posts a 1.29 ERA and 0.89 WHIP. Obviously the O’s saw something in the guy and were able to help him make some adjustments and become very effective. I’d love to know what they did with him.
Overall Elias & Co. seem to have done a fantastic job of finding value later in the draft. They didn’t even choose a pitcher until the 8th round and yet the guys they drafted had tremendous success.
This is my (not so) secret fantasy for the Elias regime. Identifying characteristics in players that are under-valued in the marketplace, applying a combo of technology and / or advanced coaching techniques that players can rapidly and permanently integrate for sustained success.
This, and drafting awesome baseball names, like "Dan Hammer"
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1 hour ago, Frobby said:
Not too surprising that the younger MVP’s have the better major league careers.
Agreed, and a bit surprised how poorly the age 27+ winners had performed in their ML careers. Perhaps the true prospects get called up, and the veteran fodder builds up counting stats waiting for someone to get hurt.
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Just for fun, looked up the last 40 winners of the International League MVP, which Mountcastle won at age 22. There has only been one other 22 year old to win, Johnny Peralta in 2004. (I just subtracted their birth year from the year they won the award). Peralta went on to be worth 31.7 WAR.
The top careers (and obviously some are in progress, not yet complete, etc)
Jim Thome 1993, age 23 (72.9 WAR)
Brett Butler 1981, age 24 (49.7)
Johnny Peralta 2004, age 22 (31.7)
Shane Victorino 2005, age 25 (31.6)- None of the other 36 winners exceeded 15.3 WAR
- 16 players (40%) had 0 WAR or less for their careers
- 9 players (23%) went on to have 10+ WAR
Average career WAR of winners, by age the year they won:
- Age 22: 15.9
- Age 23: 5.8
- Age 24: 11.0
- Age 25: 9.0
- Age 26: 4.6
- Age 27: -0.6
- Age 28: -0.8
- Age 29: 0.1
- Age 30: -0.3
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3 hours ago, wildbillhiccup said:
Answer me one question. Have you noticed a single change in Davis’ approach to hitting over the last two years?
No....
.....and it is one of the most depressing / infuriating / frustrating things about the last two years. The guy is a millstone around the neck of the franchise. Mancini should be playing first. Anyone could see the rebuild coming, knew it would be difficult, but looked forward to seeing the emerging players. Some will flame out, some will flicker with hope, and some (Means seems to be the first) will exceed expectations. But C F'ing Davis watching belt high 91 mph sinkers for strike three with that deer in the headlights walk back to the dugout look..... ugh. That I wish we could be spared.
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1 hour ago, Aristotelian said:
Jim Traber is pretty much exactly like you would expect Jim Traber to be.
https://www.news9.com/clip/14926553/jim-traber-tells-story-of-infamous-japanese-baseball-brawl
Awesome! Nice find. That was great.
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Just watched us lose 2-1 in extras to the Red Sox, a temporary, non-fatal dagger plunge to the soul.... tomorrow, it will reveal itself as merely a flesh wound.
I've played, coached and experienced rabid baseball fandom since Little League, and am not programmed by deity for any outcome other than maximum effort to win every single ballgame I'm privileged to participate in. The "tanking" mentality, manifested in this case by keeping intriguing players in the minors that *might* help us win a couple extra games, is foreign and repulsive to my DNA, an affront to the gods that blessed us with the precision of 90 feet , 60 feet 6 inches, and the weighty tablets of unwritten rules as pure to the soul as 3.2 beer is to a Jack Mormon.
However, when sunlight ultimately coerces my unwilling eyes apart, and clears the red wine haze, a stern fact remains: Zero chance we compete this year. In 2023, who will care if we won 74 games or 60 in twenty and nineteen? But the chance to pick #1 vs #4 in 2020 could end up being a difference making rookie of the year candidate batting in the bottom of the 9th during a tie Wild Card game in 2023.
Alas.
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Does Merv Rettenmund belong in the Orioles Hall of Fame?
in Orioles Talk
Posted
I think lunch-pail guy is a good descriptor.... here's a quote from a Sports Illustrated article about Merv Rettenmund from October 4, 1971 (coincidentally, my 9th birthday, and the exact day I found out I'd be seeing the Orioles play the Tokyo Giants in Tokyo a few weeks later!)
"At a time when rebellion is fashionable, even at the old ball park, Merv Rettenmund is an organization man. He seldom grumbles, rarely gripes. He admires his teammates, obeys his manager, respects his owner. He is the compleat ballplayer: a hitter, a runner, a thrower. He will give you—oh Lord—nine innings of baseball."
https://vault.si.com/vault/1971/10/04/well-hes-that-kind-of-guy