Brooks The Great

They can, and, eventually, I think they will. Vavra playing 2B yesterday after his pinch hit double is a good sign.

I love Vavra and want him supplanting Odor yesterday. Vavra's at bats are great to watch, and he and Adley are the two guys in the lineup with excellent discipline, unlike all the holdovers from the Duquette regime. Once Gunnar and Cowser are in the lineup, I'm going to love watching our hitters wear down opposing starting pitchers. Lineup I'd love to see moving forward: Mullins CF Vavra 2B Adley C Santander DH Mountcastle 1B Urias 3B Hays LF Stowers RF Mateo SS

I want to see Odor DFA'd. I don't expect it to happen, but I would be ecstatic to see it. Vavra staying in to play 2B after his pinch hit double was big because it indicates Hyde/Elias are comfortable letting Vavra play 2B defensively. Beginning of the end for Odor, hopefully.

I was against trading for Lamet, but I'd sure be down to claim him off waivers.

And it's a possibility! With Grayson Rodriguez and those 3 hitters, plus DL Hall and perhaps Colton Cowser if he gets off to a hot start next spring, we could potentially sweep the top 3 spots if things really break our way with several of those guys.

I honestly think Elias is waiting until late August to promote Stowers, Westburg, and Henderson. That way, their rookie status is preserved for the 2023 season, and those guys can all be options to start on the Opening Day 2023 roster and give them each a shot at top 3 in ROY 2023 voting, which would net us a 2024 draft pick for each player that places in the top 3. I actually think it's a good strategy.

But still... what? Groshans' stock has been plummeting for 2 straight years. He has 1 home run in about .260 at bats this season. Flashes some plate disciple, but he's not a very appealing prospect at the moment. If anything, it points to relievers not commanding much value. So it might actually justify the return Elias got a little more.

In the end, Lopez was a waiver claim. I agree that Elias could have waited, and I'm also disappointed. But in a vacuum, Elias is bolstering the teams pitching depth in the minors and parlaying a great waiver claim into multiple chances to turn one or more of the acquired pitchers into another Jorge Lopez. Povich has a shot to be an end-of-the-rotation LH starter. Can't find too much fault in that, especially if Elias and his scouts liked the pitchers they got and feel that the organization's pitching development can help them. Lopez is truly found money. I wish we could have gotten more, but it was still a waiver claim that generated some solid value, with potential upside in the future.

You clearly have followed baseball for years, so you know full well that trade deadlines always have last minute deals, and other trades can change the equation for what teams need and make available to trade. The Orioles agreed to this trade several hours before the deadline. I don't disagree that Elias has been checking on deals for Lopez for weeks. However, I completely disagree with you that other deals couldn't have come in. And no, I'm not expecting a "huge deal". But it's perfectly reasonable to expect other options and teams to negotiate with to manifest prior to the deadline. That's how lots of deals have gotten done in the past. Not going to further waste my time arguing this, since you clearly enjoy confrontation and have a history of focusing on hypothetical points in order to do so.

How can you possibly say it's not remotely true that Elias couldn't have continued negotiating with other teams closer to the end of the deadline? That's a ridiculous thing to say.

Probably just Povich. Maybe late 20's.

At least with the draft and the Mancini and Lopez trades, we've certainly started to address our lack of pitching in the minors.

No, but I think they could have certainly held out to negotiate with another team. Things can and do change in the final hours. I think we made a deal too early and settled for a mediocre package.

Not really thrilled with the return. We could have done better with another trade partner, in my opinion. Or would have preferred getting only Balazovic or Canterino from the Twins, which wouldn't have been too much to ask. Again, in my opinion.

Do you mean Peterson? And I agree, yes, you'd have to do that. And I'm someone who prefers to trade Tate and hold onto Lopez. Unless an offer like that one is possible.

It's just not going to happen. Odor is awful. And everyone can see it. Except for Brandon Hyde, apparently.

Agreed on Chirinos, and that Nottingham deserves a shot. Believe it or not, I think Maverick Handley would also be more productive than Chirinos. Right now. It's not a high bar to clear to be more productive than Chirinos, but given Handley is such a good defensive catcher and made some progress with the bat this season, I wouldn't mind being aggressive with him.

As the O's make their moves before the trade deadline today, I'm compelled to point out that the only things frustrating me about the Orioles this season (a gratifying season featuring the team performing above everyone's expectations, a very nice draft, and nice trades and waiver wire pickups during the offseason and regular season) are the presence of Nevin and Odor on the major league roster. Both players are abysmal, and have no business taking up a roster spot. Much less, in Odor's case, batting 5th in a major league game for a competitive team and getting regular starts. I don't need to do a statistical deep dive into either player - the production and stats are easy to see. AVG, OPS, OPS+, WAR - they all reflect some of the worst production in the majors this season. We have a talented player in Terrin Vavra who'd quite likely be a considerable upgrade to Odor at 2B, and even if not, would be worth evaluating and developing at the major league level. I know I'll get some comments about Odor's "leadership" and "clubhouse presence" and "clutch hits", but none of that matters to me. Production and talent does. Once the trade deadline clears up which other major league players get moved, I'd love to see Mike Elias pivot to focusing on promoting players like Stowers, Hall, Westburg, and Henderson - probably in that order - to the majors to make a Wild Card push and also get valuable reps which will help each individual player have a better chance to make a positive impact for next year and beyond. Which makes the Orioles a more competitive team in the long run. I'm not sure if Odor continuing to start and batting absurdly high in the lineup recently is more Hyde's call or Elias's, but if it's Hyde's call, I hope Elias has a Billy Beane-in-Moneyball moment and takes the choice out of Hyde's hands by DFA'ing Odor soon. It's well past time to jettison these two scrubs and focus even more on winning games and making the playoffs this season.

Elias liked the return, and he's proven to be a smart evaluator of talent not only with the Orioles, but with the Astros and Cardinals. I don't think you have reasonable expectations for the return any team can expect for 2 months of a slightly above average hitter with zero defensive value.

Today. The rebuild is, for all intents and purposes, over once we deal Santander and perhaps a bullpen arm. We're not going to be drafting at the top of the draft for a good long while, and we have a steady stream of prospects on their way up (Stowers, Westburg, Hall, and Vavra already here). We could always wind up trading someone like Austin Hays or Ryan Mountcastle at the deadline next season, but that will only be to make room for guys like Cowser, Kjerstad, Prieto, Norby, etc.

I think the Orioles are going to value the pick, especially next season when we have multiple shots at more than 1 pick. I got questioned a few months ago when I told posters on the minors board that Gunnar Henderson would be a consensus top 25 prospect on all the prospect lists for the mid-season updates, and I told them the same thing I'll tell you. Watch. Henderson, Rodriguez, Hall, Westburg and Stowers will all be on the Opening Day roster next season barring injuries.

I think keeping the extra year of team control plays a part, but I think teams (including the Orioles) are more so going to value getting an extra pick by having players that can help them win on the Opening Day roster. All of those players I listed qualify. I think Adley would have started out on the Opening Day roster for that reason. And other teams clearly valued the chance for the draft pick this season, which is why JRod and Witt started out on their team's OD rosters. In years past, both players would have been held down an extra 2-4 weeks.

Exactly. I think Elias wants to have a few shots at extra draft picks in 2024 by having one or more players place in the top 3 of the AL ROY voting next season. Gunnar, Grayson, Hall and maybe Stowers (if he's not promoted over the next day or two), Westburg (if promoted after late August) or Cowser (if promoted early enough in 2023) would give us a great chance at multiple picks.

Odor is the only real thing that angers me about the team this year. Him batting 5th tonight is preposterous. He's truly one of the worst regulars in baseball. And we have him batting 5th. He should be DFA'd, not starting regularly at 2B. Vavra's last two at bats (walk in the 9th yesterday and the infield hit today) were two of the best at bats by anyone on the Orioles this season outside of Adley. I want to see more of that. ASAP.

No, they're not punting. Diaz is the guy they promoted in the corresponding move. That doesn't mean Diaz replaces him in the lineup. If anything, Vavra replaces Mancini against righties, and Diaz is the weak side of a platoon against lefties. The posters saying the team is punting don't have a good grasp on what's happening with these moves.