CP0861

I think we all saw him do well there and like him there. Gunnar is the man, I get it. I'm not saying he can't play SS by any means. But it's not just a matter of one position, it's a matter of putting the best possible defense on the field. Everyone loves Gunnar, but that doesn't mean Ortiz and/or Holliday can't play the spot just as well or possibly better. There are always exceptions, but speaking specifically about Gunnar and not generally, I think sliding from SS to 3b would translate very well with him. If you have the athleticism and reflexes to play SS, you can probably pick it at 3b. Range is less valuable at 3b (which is why Brooks played there) and the arm is arguably more valuable. Gunnar has a good arm, which is often the part that doesn't always allow a SS to slide over. And you're absolutely right, there is no guarantee on Ortiz or Holliday. I get that and I'm okay with leaving Henderson there if they are underwhelming, but if they are what it sounds like they (hopefully) are, I think the best defensive left side is Ortiz/Holliday at SS and Gunnar at 3b. Personally, I think Holliday is the guy at SS but maybe not in 2024. I'm really REALLY looking forward to ST.

I know he's 22, and that's why I also said I wouldn't have any issue with him playing SS for now. However, his size is uncommon for the position - not unheard of, but uncommon. I realize that he's obviously shown that he can handle the position (for now) but if they have comparable defensive alternatives for SS (which I think we are all hoping that they do in Ortiz and/or Holliday), and if Henderson is likely to be moved in the future, my opinion/preference would be to move him now (or as soon as possible) and establish the left side as it will hopefully remain for years to come. IMO, Gunnar is the best 3b option in the organization....so put him there.

If he's elite at SS, all of that translates to 3b also. Especially factoring in his size. He's absolutely built for 3b. If you have another plus option at SS (Ortiz? Holliday?), moving him makes sense and would create a lockdown left side. I haven't seen Ortiz and Holliday play...sounds like Ortiz is hopefully the real deal, but I dunno. If you want him at SS for now, I wouldn't disagree, but long term....how many 6'3" 225 lb shortstops can you think of in their 30's? Historically, how many gold glovers can you think of that big besides Cal (who won 2 in 15 years)?

I've always felt this way about Gunnar. He's certainly capable of being a good SS, but to me, he's a 3b. I felt the same way about Manny.

He wouldn't be wrong. SI has been straight garbage....as has most offseason reporting. I know it's the day and age that we're in (clicks and likes) but it's gotten absolutely ridiculous.

It's a shame they stopped having Fanfest. I took my young kids a few years in a row and they loved it (I also enjoyed it as much as they did). I have no doubt it helped fuel their interest as O's fans. Every now and then they still ask about it.....YEARS later. I think the last year we went was the year that Manny and Schoop backed out. I don't even know when they ended - maybe that was the last one? Regardless....poor decision by the Orioles. It may not have been profitable for them (although they raked in a ton from me!!), but they were absolutely cultivating young fans with the experience.

I was hoping they would trade him last year when he started off hot and was hitting .350ish with a handful of home runs in late April/early May. But obviously they didn't and he fell off and was back to batting .220something probably by the end of May. If he could be serviceable in CF, that's huge. Also, despite his shortcomings offensively, he is absolutely a weapon on the bases.

So you'd be willing to give anything for a starter? Okay with an overpay for a rental? Without knowing ALL details and unless you know all the potential deals that were offered, negotiated and rejected, you can't say that.

We're clear, you didn't say that (I also didn't say that you did). I was responding to the "Mayo is more ready today" part. The difference in their AAA experience is less than 200 PAs. In a do or die situation, today...right now, I'll take Holliday. ST should be interesting.

Lol. He usually DIDN'T hit clean up (35% of his PAs), but I was just going along with SportsFans emotionally fueled (and rather nonsensical) label of "clean up hitter" Interestingly enough, Mountcastle hit .216 with a .567 OPS batting 4th. But they won 101 games, so....I'm wrong.

I would politely disagree. Holiday didn't scorch at AAA like he has at each of the other levels, but he had a better start there than Mayo did. I think Holiday was 0-for his 1st 3 games, but aside from that, he did just fine. He also looked great in ST considering he was barely 19 and only had like 20 pro games under his belt. I don't think Holliday NEEDS more time in the minors. They might/probably will send him down, but it will likely be for (a combination of) other reasons more than it will be developing his bat. His bat plays now. Mayo ended up hot obviously and put up good numbers, but I think people are discounting Holiday simply because of his age and it's so easy to say "he needs more experience". His bat is special and his eye is on another level - he gets on base 45% of the time, which is essentially unheard of. He doesn't hit for big power yet, but it's also not like he hasn't shown power. In his limited time in the minors, he's put up some crazy numbers. They are different hitters, but to me Holiday is the best hitter in the organization, and I don't think it's close.

Very true. Those 2 together were decent. However, they have a traffic jam with young position players and Mountcastle is about to become less cheap. Time to poop or get off the pot.

His approach and the results were very noticeable when he came back up. It was what I had been hoping to see all along. The ability and potential has been there. I don't know if it was the vertigo, or the reality check of realizing he was replaceable, or a combination of both. Hopefully, he carries that in 2024.

Gotcha, great logic for keeping him...since they won 101 games, I'm wrong and Mountcastle is a stud. By that logic, everything is perfect and they don't ever need to change a thing, right? I never mentioned Mayo, but he's one of multiple guys who can probably put up a whopping 18 HR's as a "clean up hitter" like Mountcastle did in 2023. Sorry you don't like it, but he was flat out mediocre for most of last season....except for about 35 games. But hey, go ahead and crown him with your made up partial season award if you want to.

No need to grab a few weeks worth of data when he has multiple seasons under his belt. If you're going to go that small with sample sizes, what was his OPS in September and October? I'll save you some time, it was horrible - literally anyone else on the roster could have put up that production. He went streaky again and basically disappeared for the last 6 weeks of the season. He is what he is, he's a very streaky hitter with a bit of power who hasn't quite managed an .800 OPS since his rookie season (another small sample). Does it make him a whipping boy to say that?? Apparently. Maybe one day he'll start hitting the ball like some stats say he can, but I'll go with actual production, and his actual production isn't anything special. With that being said, I'd love to see him have a monster year in 2024, but to me he isn't the guy some of you want to make him out to be. Personally (and admittedly pure speculation on my part), I think he came up with a little 1st round hype and had some success. He hit 30+ hr's in his 1st full season, got a few ROY votes, and I think he got comfortable riding on that. I just read the Buck story a few posts back - I had never heard that before but to me, it fits with my own perception of him. Obviously none of us know the entire vertigo story, but it was interesting to see him come back on absolute fire. It looked like the time in the minors might have woken him up (even though he looked pretty horrible in AAA) and he looked like the guy I've been wanting to see, and then he completely fell of the table again. Personally, I'm ready to move on...I think his production can be replaced and he's about to get more expensive. I hope he gets off to a hot start and they trade him.

Based on what? More AAA ab's?

mlb.com "lists" are garbage. They just put out a "list" of the best 2b post 1947. Utley was 5 and Alomar wasn't even on the list. Robinson, Morgan, Biggio, Sandberg, Utley (whoever made the list is from Philly I guess), Grich, Whitaker, Cano, Kent.....in that order. https://www.mlb.com/stories?s=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.mlb.com%2Fstories%2Fprime-9-second-basemen

Going back even further, which one of you here was bs630 on the old ESPN board?? Frobby? I've always been curious.

This is correct. My advice, if you are 45 or over - get a colonoscopy done. If you have to, tell your doctor you've been bleeding.

"most colon cancers can be caught with vigilance" If you're over 50 and have good insurance, then maybe. I don't think insurance covers colonoscopy procedures for preventative purposes until you're 50.....although I think that age may be trending down to 45. I just had a 2cm polyp removed....my doctor said it absolutely would have become cancerous at some point. I'm 43. The only reason I was even able to have the colonoscopy done was because I embellished some symptoms a bit and I had a bad bout of colitis when I was younger, so I had some "history". I had a friend die last year from it, she was 46. I know another guy who died recently in his mid-40s from it....and I know another guy who has it now who is only about 41ish. Colon cancer is a mfer. By the time you have symptoms and go to the doctor, it's probably too late.

What's Hunter Harvey's trade value right now?!

Is it just me, or has this offseason been RIDICULOUS with nothing but made up "what if" articles with no factual basis whatsoever?? It keeps getting worse and worse....it's nuts. Basically none of these articles are credible. That article's headline is "Baltimore Orioles Linked to Twins Starter". And I guess they're linked because of an Athletic article?! That counts as "linked"??? Then it says the "Orioles could find help.....Maeda is not a pitcher the Orioles have been linked to this offseason. But he may be one worth investigating." Garbage.

I guess that's where the disconnect is. I think that if they trade him, they can do better than 1 year of Santander. If nothing else, instead of trading and paying for a single year of Santander, why not just hold onto Bieber in hopes of trading him at the 2024 deadline? Or holding him for a QO pick? Wouldn't assuming the risk (of holding him) be a no-brainer considering they'd be left with nothing in 2025 if they traded for Santander??

Obviously. But is Santander the difference maker for Cleveland in 2024?! So Santander helps their offense for 1 year. Then what? He'll be gone and they'll have nothing to show for either Bieber or Santander. Santander as part of a package could make sense, but as a 1 for 1, why trade for a single season of a 1 dimensional player who will cost comparable money?

Why on earth would Cleveland trade 1 year of Bieber for 1 year of Santander? It would make NO sense for Cleveland. Zip. Zero. Nada.