Tony-OH

This is unknown area for Elias. As for know, Elias has done many things well so far and has certainly brought the Orioles back to relevancy with a lot of good young talent here and on the horizon. It is however completely unknown how good Elias is at reading free agency markets or making prospects for major league impact talent trades in order to make that last step. How good are they are evaluating their own talent? I don't know if we know that yet. Elias has stepped into that next role is GM and we don't know yet whether he can "close" the deals to make this team a legitimate contender in the AL East.

True, but they've also traded away a lot of good talent over the years. it does seem like they are trying to stop that by risking these long term deals on young players. That's a risk because not all of these guys are going to work out.

I would certainly do 8 with Rutschman, but I'm not sure he would unless the money was real good.

"The crying and whining! I have a right not to like it. What a bunch of depressing whiner" If you don't understand the difference between saying what you said above and calling someone's opinion absurd, then a little break might be what you need for perspective. I have no dog in this fight besides seeing us all have a discussion without personally attacking each other. that's the last I'm going to say on this and get back to the baseball talk.

It will be interesting to see if the Orioles try and do the Franco style contract with Gunnar. As good as Rutschman is, I don't think you can do with a catcher, at least not for the same length.

Can you post a little "scouting report" on both of them with maybe some links when you gets a chance. Or can someone else?

Truth. The problem is, Elias may not have been given the budget to do so. If that ends up the truth, they will need to hope for a lot of young players to really step up, especially Grayson and Hall in the rotation.

I saw that downvoting by a newer member on you. I actually went and downgraded the amount of rep new members can give or take away before they reach limited posting members stage and they lose the ability all together until they become a plus member.

We know Carlos Rodón is the only left-handed TOR available but we also doubt the Orioles are going to be able to outspend the big boys for his services. Right now, the Orioles starting rotation is right-handed only until John Means returns mid-season with DL Hall and Bruce Zimmermann the only legitimate in house options next season. Hall could be an opener, or they could run him out there as a five inning starter, or they could decide he's ready to be moved to impact relief. So if they got the trade route, who should they target? Homework assignment: So who are some of the left-handed starters that might be available for trade and what are the teams needs? Second part, if the team had to include a young right-handed starter, who would you part with between Kremer and Bradish?

I definitely think the Rays model may be how Elias ultimately decides he must operate if he's not going to be given much of a budget. I hope people realize that means Rutschman and Gunnar will be traded by year 4 or 5 if that's the case. Personally, while I can appreciate how the Rays keep themselves relevant, they've never won a WS with this model and I do think the lack of identity with their players is a problem for some fans. I don't think the Orioles need to be run like that and with the right ownership support, they shouldn't.

Sorry, I can't see everything. I thought you were doing a great job of giving your opinion without attacking. I didn't see anyone attack you back, but maybe I missed it. Sometimes I have to actually do my real job and it takes me away from the board for hours at a time. that leads me to getting behind and don't read everything. Either way, I have a pretty good feel for what's disagreeing and what's attacking, and so far I've only seen one person so far unable to discuss without attacking.

This is my main concern with the plan. What no one can argue is that Elias has built a great farm system and improved our development and international presence. The problem with the Astros model though is that talent must eventually be offset by impact players, especially starting pitchers, and we've been given no actions that indicate the Angelos family will allow to happen with their current legal (Lou/MASN, etc) issues ongoing. I'm not saying it can't happen, I'm just saying no actions so far have shown it will happen.

You are, but what you don't have the right is to belittle or attack others who don't agree with your assessment. Feel free to disagree, that's what this board is for, but you are the only one in this thread attacking while doing so. I know you know better and I know you can do better while disagreeing. You seem to take it personally if someone has a differing opinion. It's ok, it happens.

I agree with pretty much everything you said here but would add "so far" to the bolded/red part. I'm disappointed that they let Bassitt go for what appeared to be a reasonable contract to a Division rival, but I also would like a left-handed starter to take advantage of that big left field in Camden. I do think the trade market will heat up now that most of the bigger pitching names have gone off the board, but ow we need some of the bigger position players to start falling too in order to get that market to heat up. We have no idea of Elias' ability to value major league league impact talent and what he's willing to give up in trad for it because we haven't seen him do it yet. We have however seen him overvalue players like odor and Aguilar and that concerns me, but those are a bit different than the trades he needs to pull off. Rodon fits here like a glove, but I don't see the team shelling out that kind of money and years unless somehow, Rodon's market isn't where he's like and he comes here for one of those 2 years deals like Verlander with an opt out after one. The question is for the group, who are the other left-handed starters that might be available to trade that could fit here really well and won't cost the farm system to get?

Why are you so aggressive today? No one else is acting like this. We can have a conversation without attacking people for this thoughts. Whether i agree with Redskins Rick or not, he deserves respect like everyone else on here. C'mon man, you are better than this.

Every other team seems to spending that Disney money too.

Not a cool response. Feel free to disagree, telling a lifelong fan of over 50 years that they are a drama queen and need get a grip is not a response I expect from a one of our senior posters.

Especially since teams no longer lose your #1 pick.

He has certainly been trying to be more realistic on what the organization is able to do when it comes to contracts. Personally, once I heard Elias talking back his "taking off" comment I knew something had changed. If I had to guess, and it's purely a guess based off the facts that we publicly know, I think he got his budget for next year and it was much lower than he expected. I also don't see the Orioles spending what it takes to get or even keep talent while the Angelos family owns the team. Until Peter passes, the team won't be sold and this franchise and it fans will be stuck in low budget mode.

That's really where I'm at. There's Povich after those three, but he's not someone you can count on yet and we both agree with Hall has the talent, but most likely ends up in the pen as a weapon. That leaves the team with Grayson Rodriguez as the guy that is ready and he's going to be on an innings limit. In my mind, Bassitt made a lot of sense for this team. Now, there are still guys out there but Rodon is a pipedream and I'm starting to think they will focusing on trades in January. Personally I'd rather give up the draft pick for a fairly sure thing than give up talent THIS year. I don't think the Orioles are going to be true World Series contenders next year but they certainly are playoff contenders or they SHOULD be legitimate playoff contenders.

It does seem that way! lol BTW, I do think the Orioles are on the cusp of being able to produce their lineup internally. I just don't see the starting pitching depth or that TOR (Grayson can be that but the innings limit means not this year).

My concern is that they will not add any big contracts on vis FA or trade. We shall see.

Perhaps. I never said they must sign that guy, but I am worried that Elias won't be allowed to trade for that guy either because of the contract.

The problem is the Orioles are not even trying to go toe to toe. More like toe to hang nail. At some point ownership has to support the product that Elias has built from within. As for your rotation, you have to remember that both Rodriguez and Wells will have innings limits placed on them. Even if you assume they all equal their performances or improve and you have no injuries, this is still a team that finished 4th last year and has not improved on paper very much while the others have.

And he will if he's healthy, but he has to earn his way back on the prospect scene.