Tony-OH

I don't believe for a second that he's delusional. I think he wants every last dime he's owed and he only cares about himself. It is is clear to everyone he is no longer a major league baseball player. He knows it, but he has to say those things to try and make it sound like he's going to suddenly get better.

LaRoche did it for his family and that's very respectful. Gil Meche though is the guy I respect because he walked away because he rather respect himself then collect money he could not earn. https://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/27/sports/baseball/27meche.html We've had these discussions in the past and there's always that guy or guys who say, "Which one of you would walk away?" Well let me make this very clear, if I had made the amount of money that Davis has made already and was in his current predicament, yes, I would retire and walk away from the rest of the money because like Meche, I'd rather respect myself and I'd rather my kids be able to respect me and know that once I could not earn my paycheck, I gave it up. Some won't believe me, but anyone that really knows me would know that's true.

Ah, the old "everyone who disagrees with my point of view is pathetic". You should take a hard look into the mirror because your hypocrisy is glowing. Whether you want to believe there not a perception problem or not does not mean people don't believe there is and it's not pathetic at all if people have done their own risk assessment and decided to not go into the city.

BTW, just to set the record straight, I don't personally think it's unsafe to go to an Orioles game if you park at a stadium lot.

Did you read the article I posted? "Baltimore’s population has dipped below 600,000 for the first time in more than a century, according to U.S. Census estimates released Thursday. The city’s estimated population was 593,490 as of July 1, 2019, the new data shows." "But since 2015, when Baltimore saw civil unrest after the death of Freddie Gray from injuries he suffered in police custody, the city has experienced annual declines in population." "None of the counties surrounding the city saw their population substantially decline last year, noted Michael Rendall, director of the Maryland Population Research Center and a sociology professor at the University of Maryland, College Park." "Since 2010, the city has lost 27,280 residents, shedding more than 4% of its population, according to the estimates." "In 2015, a Baltimore Neighborhood Indicators Alliance report for Rawlings-Blake’s “Grow Baltimore” initiative identified key factors that make people want to leave the city. They were: “daily stressors such as litter, parking, property crime and vacant housing; high property taxes and insurance rates; poor performing public schools and lack of information about school choice; and few market-rate housing choices for new retirees.” Since 2015, violence has spiked in the city, with more than 300 homicides each year."

Being a contender again should help the attendance, but all of that happened pre 2015. I'm not quite sure some people understand how many people don't want to go into cities right now or in the near future. Again, it's not everyone, some people will have zero issues going into cities, but others will prefer to watch games on TV or streaming if available. Plus, I think this past year has affected many people in many ways. The COVID situation, the restrictions, the lack of social interaction in person is having a profound affect on people and it could last for years or maybe forever, i don't know. Major sports fans that lived and died with sports have found how to cope without them. I know I never thought Sundays in the fall and winter would not include football, yet now it does and I've found I don't miss it. I know many others who did not watch the Orioles this year as well, many who were die hards and have lived breathed Orioles since childhood. Now, maybe they will come back next year if stadiums open up, we will see, or maybe people will have found other ways to entertain themselves? I think pro sports is at a huge crossroads and people are finding other ways to spend their entertainment dollar and time investment. Everyone is different, and I respect all opinions on the matter, but anytime you give people opportunities to de-invest in your product, you fear not getting them back. With people cutting the cord because of overpriced cable, teams are going to start losing that cash cow and they will need to find it elsewhere, but attendance is down too. At some point salaries will start to come down but that won't come easy from the player's unions and i think work stoppages are on the horizon. All of this spells trouble for America's former past time. It will be interesting to se how they navigate these troubled waters and in particular, how the Orioles do while under Angelos ownership that has never been on the leading edge of these kinds of things.

Lol. nice try at a shot, but there lots more than that. Either way, you can take it how you like and focus on that or you can admit that you are wrong, that Baltimore's reputation is part of the problem. I realize you won't do that because you see things in two shades, black and white, while I see things in a massive array of shades of gray. Baltimore is hemorrhaging residents and businesses. You can make your own decision why that is and then it will become political. In case you think I'm making that up, here's a Sun article. https://www.baltimoresun.com/maryland/baltimore-city/bs-md-ci-population-estimates-20200326-nebck2k2anbwrcfsbknphsfgwi-story.html But, again, I've tried several time to get this back to baseball attendance but you want to focus on the other stuff. At the end of the day, there are various reasons why I don't think the Orioles will ever average 30K fans again. I hope I'm wrong.

Yeah, I agree. I frequent those place too (like Hysteria) and they typically will have reruns of Friends on the screen instead of the Orioles game. I don't know if my own younger son (23) has ever watched an Orioles game from start to finish in TV, ever. He might come in and watch a few innings while he eats or if the game is close and he may watch the end, but he just doesn't have the same love of the game as I did and trust me, he was given all the opportunity in the world to love it from me! lol Baseball is at a crossroads as our generation is probably the last of the real die hards for the sport. I'm not saying they're aren't some die hards under 30, but I bet there are lot fewer of them then when we were in our 20s. I see teams going to smaller, tech savvy stadiums that will give people things to do that have to do with the game like using their smart phone to predict what a batter will do and win some kind of points when they are right that can be redeemed for future tickets or maybe merchandise/food or even leaderboards in the stadium so a person would "famous" for a night for being first or in the top three? I don't know, but they are going to have to come up with a streaming option that also could use some kind of game like that as well. This would encourage people to turn in to get on the daily, weekly, monthly and season leaderboards!

He's probably at a point where he's like, "Screw it, I might as well tell the truth now, the fans already boo me and my legacy will be as the guy who signed the worse contract in Orioles history and possibly may go down as the worse player ever to be given so many major league PAs at the end of their career." He'll always have that thick bank account though so he can wipe away his faux tears with hundred dollar bills!

What's political about what I said? These are actual statements and facts from mayors of the city. I never called either names or said what they said was right or wrong, just facts that I believe have affected suburban fans from coming to games. In fact, I know people who have told me straight up they will not go into Baltimore anymore. Now, you live there and feel different, that's fine. I'm sure there are others, particularly millennials that don't feel unsafe going to the stadium area, or Fells, or Fed Hill and that is fine is well. But many families do feel unsafe in the city for various reasons. Whether you want to admit it or not, or whether it's even reality, but Baltimore has huge perception problem right now. That is going to affect the attendance of baseball games. Rightfully or wrongfully, until the perception issue is solved in some manner, I don't see the average attendance ever going over 30K again (something that only has happened once since 2005).

Lol.. Chris Davis is the biggest narcist you will find. He's literally laughing at the Orioles for signing him and he knows they are "stuck with him". We can only hope that Elias is finally able to cut him next spring before opening day so we don't need to see him play another game as an Oriole. BTW, I'm glad he finally showed his true colors to the fans. I've known people for years that have said the same thing about him but he always said the right things in the press. Now he's like, "Yep, I suck, but you knew what you were getting and I'll be here no matter what!" I can at least appreciate Davis for being honest for once.

Exactly. That's why I thought keeping Frederick was so important because flying down I-70 is actually pretty easy to get to Baltimore.

You mean when the police left because they were told to let the rioters "have some space to destroy" and a ban of rioters attacked fans minding their own business at Pickels? You mean a police force that continually is being defunded and now has a mayor who was hugely behind defunding the police? That's a tough sell especially with other entertainment opportunities around that are much safer than entering lawless Baltimore. As for $8 parking, few apparently know about it. All the lots say permit holders and the guys flagging people onto "personal" lots want $20 to park. Saying that, I haven't paid to park there in a long time so I'm just going by what others have told me. Look, I don't think the attendance woes are all about safety, but you have to admit that Baltimore does not have a good reputation and whether that true or not around Camden Yards, it does affect people coming to games. Saying that, the team's performance and just where team sports on whole are right now are contributing, but you have to admit, the 2019 attendance figures were pretty scary. It will be interesting to see how attendance ends up after COVID restrictions are lifted. At some point Elias will decide it's time to win games and maybe that will be when fans return, but how many fans will he have lost or not gained while the team was wallowing in awfulness? I just think the success of baseball in Baltimore is really a concern right now and I've never thought that in my entire life. I hope I'm wrong and the team wins and people come back and Camden Yards and downtown Baltimore is rocking once again, but with Harbor Place going under and few businesses wanting to open up in the current environment, I think that's years away if it happens at all.

I would agree with this though I know there is a nice fan base in the Delmarva areas as well. Saying that, it takes me two hours to get to Shorebirds Stadium and 40-45 minutes to Frederick or Aberdeen and 30 minutes (mainly due to to awful traffic near the stadium on rt3) to get to Bowie.

I agree. I do think major sports will all see declines for various reasons, including a newer generation that prefers to stay home and play xbox online with friends then go to games. Teams will needs to use streaming services to attract viewers and hope those viewers turn into fans that attend games. It's still a good time to spend an evening in Camden Yards, but it's more fun if the team is doing well, there are players you want to watch play personally, and the parking is close, cheap and safe.

We've had this discussion before and not worth getting into. You have strong feelings as do the many, many people I've talked to who have differing feelings. Certainly the team sucking has contributed, but the team sucked for most of the 2000s and drew quite well. Die hards are die hards, they are always going to come out in some fashion. The problem is there are less die-hards being developed while the team sucks. When you add in a city that is not a place many families feel safe visiting you are going to have continuing attendance woes. Perhaps if the Orioles become great again they can approach the 30K mark like in 2014, but if I'm a better man the Orioles will never draw over 30K in a season again.

Here's the thing though, people in PG county consider themselves Washington people. They are primarily Redskin fans and were Senator fans before they left. they adopted the Orioles. Frederick was a rural town until the last 15 or so years where it's built up with yuppies, many of which have begun to assimilate themselves with Washington over Baltimore. I don't think the Baysox being in Bowie is creating new fans. In Bowie, most of the fans that go are coming from the Crofton, Gambrills, Annapolis and AA County area, but they haven't been drawing very well the last few years and they have one of the worse Double-A stadiums around. I watch a lot of videos and Prince George's stadium is one of the worse stadiums by far and they've done little to improve the fan experience. Heck Bowie doesn't even announce their games on MiLB TV when many other affiliates do. Frederick draws well and has been putting money unto their stadium to improve the fan experience for the most part. In Frederick, with no Baltimore affiliate up there, I think that entire area of fans, especially the younger generation are going to become Nats fans. So basically I believe the Bowie area is already lost to the Nats while Frederick was still up for grabs but won't be now that they've lost their affiliate with the Orioles. Sure, old school fans are not going to change, but as Frederick grows, and it's growing rapidly, I think they lose a lot of potential Orioles fans. The Orioles are in quite of a dilemma for gaining new fans. They have a city that few families want to venture into due to safety concerns, they have a team that hasn't been in a World Series since 1983, and have been one of the worse teams in baseball since 2018 and staring at another year where management trades away players that will help win games from DSL players and draft picks. Crowds have been dwindling For fans like us, that doesn't matter as much because we are in this for life, but there is not a lot of excitement from the millennial crowd for the Baltimore Orioles. The attendance at Camden Yards has fallen every year since the Freddie Gray riots that caused the game on 29 April to be played with no fans. The Orioles have fallen from an average of 30,426 in 2014 to 16,146 in 2019. Heck, the 1988 Orioles that started off 0-21 and in dilapidated Memorial Stadium drew 20, 630 fans. The last time the Orioles drew worse was in 1976 when they averaged 13.069 which was actually the 6th highest attendance for the franchise at the time. Whether people want to admit it or not, the Baltimore Orioles have a huge attendance and fan excitement problem. Sure, there are lots of other things that get people's attention now, and the Nats certainly has hurt bringing in the Washington and Northern Virginia crowd especially during the week when trying to get from Northern Virginia to Baltimore is pretty horrible during the week when they can hop a metro and be in Nats Stadium and still catch a game. But Frederick in my mind was an area that was once solid Orioles territory that will now go Nats heavy after they lose the affiliation. Camden Yards is a beautiful stadium that is a great fan experience, and perhaps winning again one day will make it once again a place to go often, but the city's image does nothing to help the Orioles draw people anymore and that means we may never see consistent large crowds once again in Camden Yards.

Appears its the other way around.

The second GCL team will allow the Orioles to bring over their ready DSL players and get a better look at them. The NY-Penn League was really supposed to be for the college guys who were just drafted, but honestly, they should be able to compete in Low-A anyways. I really see them pushing the number of draft picks back significantly. Realistically 20-30 is all you need and can sign free agents after that.

Me too. Bowie is a Washington suburb while Frederick is half way to both. Basically what they've done is lose an area that will now have young people moving toward the Gnats because they have been a winning team while the Oriole wallow in last place and battle for the 1st pick in the draft every year. I am glad to see Aberdeen get picked up as a full season club.

Case closed.

Hess and Arrieta should never be mentioned in the same sentence unless it to say they were both once drafted, developed and pitched for the Orioles.

I'd rather see Stewart at DH while the outfield starts off with Mountcastle, Hays and Santander. Mancini for me is the 1B if he's healthy. The best defensive outfielder the Orioles can put out there is Hays in LF, Mullins in CF, and Santander in RF. If Mancini is not ready, Id go with that with Mountcastle moving to 1B and Stewart still at DH.

Absolutely. It wasn't a criticism of him rather an observation.

As for Diaz, I really think his major league equation is quite simple. When there is everyday playing time available in the corner outfield or DH spot at the major league level and Diaz is playing effectively in AAA, he's going to get the call. I don't think there is any magic OPS number he must meet to get promoted. Now if he's killing it in AAA and a guy is under performing, then I can see him forcing his way up.