AnythingO's
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Posts posted by AnythingO's
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4 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:
What does Boras have to do with anything? I think he's a Beverly Hills Sports Council client.
Just the Boras mentality, a superstar rookie won't sign an extension that's team friendly.
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7 minutes ago, RZNJ said:
What do consider years away? Wagner, Fabian, and Beavers are basically where Norby and Cowser were last year doing the same or better. I suspect all three will get 2-3 months at Bowie this year and could even follow the Norby/Cowser timeline.
I can see those 3 plus Jackson getting 2-3 at Bowie this year. My years away comment was more about high Top 100 ranking above 50. Cowser is there now but HK and Westburg are 50, 51. I expect HK, Westburg, Cowser, and Ortiz to all be on the O's later this year or all of next year. No more Frazier, Santander, OLeary, Vavra spots. The next wave is going to get this years Westburg treatment, and that includes Jackson and Mayo. ME will want to stretch the pipeline as much as possible. The next way will have to dislodge an incumbent in 2025 or later.
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16 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:
I don’t understand why people keep saying he “probably won’t accept these offers”.
I don't pretend to speak for "people" but Boras, is the likely answer to your question. However, I agree with you, $300M is nonsense. He will enter FA as a 30 year old C, we have no way at this point to know what his physical condition will be nor how productive his bat will be re: a position change. He maybe has 6 years left at that point, what are teams going to give today for a 30-year old catcher 4+ years from now? Answer that question, add $45M for his ARB years and that's your offer. Maybe 6/$160, plus a signing bonus $5M you get to 10/$210M and the team assumes all performance risk. Give him an opt out after year 6.
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2 hours ago, Bemorewins said:
We don't need to "push all our chips in" to acquire a front line starter that will be with the team for more than just this post season. Some are under contract for multiple years you know? Of course that will factor into the acquisition cost. But we are having a problem fitting the guys now on to our Big League roster, some are even suggesting platoons of top 100 prospects. Where are we going to find the room to add Westburg, Cowser, and Ortiz AND then next year probably adding Kjerstad, Holliday, and Mayo? Oh and don't forget Norby. Where are all of those players going to play? Which one do you value more winning a WS or potentially multiple ones or holding on to/hoarding ALL of you prospects?
Your obsession with spending 2-3 top 100 prospects to acquire a TOR SP NOW is NOT built on a sound foundation IMHO. Today (after Gunnar& GRod) we have 7 prospects in MLB's Top 100. Jackson is off limits. Of the remaining 6, Ortiz is already here and makes Urias redundant (trade bait). The next injury to Santander or Hays brings Cowser up. Santander will not be extended and gets more expensive, redundant (trade bait). Down to 4, Westburg or Ortiz are your next 2B or SS as a bridge to Jackson (depending on Mateo). You are now down to 3, Kjerstad, Hall, and Norby left over in your plethora of Top 100 prospects. HK is being transitioned to 1B and his bat is DH/1B playable next year. Hall will fail as a SP and move to RP. Norby doesn't really have a plus defensive position. Santander, Urias, Norby, and Hall doesn't bring the kind of TOR you desire, with multi-year control. Jackson and Mayo will NOT be here next year, other than a cup of coffee, ME is trying to stagger these guys to have a longer pipeline. ME will want a decision on HK before rushing Mayo or changing his position, as 3B is Gunnar's. The next bunch: Beavers, Wagner, Fabian, etc. are years away.
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2 minutes ago, Aglets said:
Tigers are 2 and a half games back of 1st place right now. They have been playing much better baseball since we crushed them earlier. I'm not so sure they will be looking to deal for prospects.
I agree, but ERod has the opt out he will surely use. His cost should be along the lines of the QO value in prospects. Maybe Norby, Stowers value. Include Gibson to offset salary some. DET gets better short term and long term. We get a front of rotation guy as a rental we could try to extend.
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My expectations for the trade deadline hinge on guessing what ME is thinking. He lost all of us with Frazier so good luck reading his mind. IMO, ME is still evaluating all the pieces, both MLB and MiLB players. What does the real Mateo look like, 2 amazing heaters in less than a season? Does he have a third coming? Can he be a .700-750 OPS guy with GG defense? What to do with Urias as Ortiz has shown the ability to cover his spot? Westburg can cover all 3 IF positions as well. I think ME plans for next year, not this year. I can see him trading some of Urias, Norby, Stowers, Vavra, they are surplus going forward. Westburg. Ortiz, Mateo, and Gunnar are your infield going forward. In the COF, I don't think Santander is in ME's future plans, Hays to RF, Cowser to LF along with Mullins and McKenna. We still need a 1B better than Mounty, hopefully Kjerstad can make that transition, maybe Diaz on the bench. I don't think a big TOR SP is in the cards because ME is risk adverse and JA ain't gonna write that check. The pieces I think are surplus don't get you there. ME already has Irvin and Means in reserve for 2024. Maybe Urias for Trevor Rogers (MIA's DL Hall) or the other surplus parts for an ERod rental. Maybe you take that chance hoping you can extend him, sweeten the pot from 3/$49M to 3/$54M and add a few years at market rate. ERod basically costs Gibson and Frazier going forward if he stays.
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Centerfield - Fogarty?? Put me in coach..
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10 minutes ago, Frobby said:
Makes sense. Look, it’s always important to beat the Yankees, don’t get me wrong. I’m just saying we’ve already put ourselves in a position where this road trip can’t be a disaster. Saying that, we’re already 1-2 against the Yankees and it would be great if we didn’t fall further in the hole against them.
We play 13 games against each team now so unless their is a rainout that doesn't get made up, we can't be tied head-to-head because of odd number of games.
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47 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:
Hit #10 today.
I know we have talked a lot about him but still feel he’s getting overlooked.
Current stats:
.318 .400 .621 1.021 -
4 minutes ago, accinfo said:
I don't know what is in Mike Elias DNA or not, but his team is 31-16 so maybe it is success. You can complain about him holding players back because of future control if they are doing what they are doing in the minors and the major league is struggling and he refuses to promote them because of Super 2. You can't right now. He has a winning major league team and he gets to keep those players for longer to either trade them or sign them a little more in the future. That to me is having the best of both worlds. The current club is winning and the future further down the road is stronger. The Super 2 control stuff is collectively bargined. This is the system both sides agreed to. I don't blame the players for signing for the highest dollars they can and I don't blame management for getting the maximum value from each player.
OK, first, I'm not C_o_C (did I get that right?) on the Super 2 manipulation bandwagon, my comment was from the perspective of a draft-first guy maximizing player control, I am NOT complaining. ME doesn't know yet what he has in the pipeline and he will be cautious before he moves ay of them. We don't know what financial constraints JA has placed on ME, the failed "lift off" last offseason cab be explained away several ways. I was reacting to Brobinson and Sportsfan 8703 comments about "adequate" pitching and "nobody pushing Frazier". Me is gong to delay as long as possible before he moves any pieces, Sig-bot will dictate who.
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42 minutes ago, wildcard said:
But at the end of the season they didn't trade Baylor or Grich. They did not make room for them. They sent they back to AAA in 1971. So the O's are on a pace to win over 100 games this season. They have several players at AAA that are ready or near ready for the Majors. But since they are winning they don't want to change anything. They don't have room to promote AAA players to the majors. Do you see any similarities?
OK WC, I do appreciate your O's -colored glasses but this bunch isn't the 1970 O's. Who do you want Baylor to replace, Buford, Blair, or Robinson????? The had marvelous Merv and May/Motton as McKenna wannabes. The only AAA guy kicking the current door is Westburg which would require ME to admit his mistake w/"hewhomustnotbenamed". Not gonna happen. You think Hyde is gonna start Cowser (not on 40-man) over his preferred veteran Santander??? Hyde preferred Frasier and Vavra to Stowers. Hyde manages IMHO by his gut, and inclines to matchups, regardless of stats to the contrary. Lest I be accused of Hyde bashing (in this thread) tht's not my point. Most of the time he lays the percentages but in favor of veteran-osity. No freakin way he is messing with Hays, Mullins, Santander (absent injury, knock on wood) until somebody's wheels come off. Certailly not for Cowser, at this point (off-speed, lefties).
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6 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:
But we have "decent" starting pitchers, and Frazier is having a pretty solid season. Urias has also been hurt. As of right now, the Frazier signing looks decent/good. Heck, he's batting 5th. And nobody is really pushing him.
Yes, we do have "decent" SPs, some may improve as the season progresses, some will not. Not too much promising on the horizon unless you believe post-TJ Means or are WC doing Hall-dreaming. The point that "nobody is really pushing him" is due to ME's roster management. You have made multiple references to Super 2 if I remember correctly. IMHO, ME is going to do EVERYTHING he can to maximize control over Cowser, Westburg, Ortiz, and then Kjerstad, Beavers, Wagner, Fabian, etc It is in his DNA.
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3 minutes ago, Too Tall said:
Roy, I can beat you by almost 10 years. I still remember the 1954 team that got me started. My wife of 61 years still reminds me of the summer letters I wrote her during college that talked more about the Orioles than anything else. I'm a bit older now but I still have a much better day when they win as opposed to losing. Our team does affect our spirit. I truly appreciate what you posted above. In spite of all the ups and many downs, I bleed orange and always will. And boy did I love every bit of yesterday.
Sounds like you have me by a few years but I do remember Hanson and Woodling, when Brooks first stuck with the O's, was pissed when Gentile left and believed it was Boog's fault. Ignorance of youth. I also hate TOR more than NYY or BOS. Drug allegations, funny Canadian wood in their bats, guy in the white shirt in CF, the cameras in the hotel room (they were Houston first), Bautista (love Odor), Donaldson vs Manny (roid rage anyone). And lest I forget, CITO STILLSUCKSSSSSSSSS.
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46 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:
Their manager doesn't seem that great from a game decision making standpoint. I wonder how he is in the clubhouse. That seems to me as if it might be a difficult club to manage.
This I think is a real thing. Like BOS they just assume they will be good and in it until the end. But there are strong personalities in every clubhouse, those who have a record of success, along with newbies, rookies, new acquisitions, etc. It takes time and a manager with good ears and the ability to process the input, to process the data. Hyde is very good at that, I think the veteran managers not so much. I don't know which of the "other 3" beyond TB will fold and implode, but IMHO, our O's finish 3rd, win the first playoff series, and next yea, go W-T-W to the WS. We ae seeing shades of 1982
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OK, I'm not gonna argue with @Roy Firestone (or Frobby), those are obvious first rank choices. Given that we are adding to the current roster, Adley can't be picked, but NOBODY has ever had such a dramatic impact on a team in my lifetime, and I started rooting for Triandos and Gentile. In my roughly 60-plus years (age 73) of O's fandom, other than possibly Frank, NOBODY in the batters box was as feared as prime EDDIE. The glare, the focus, the appearance of wrath about to be uncoiled with his next swing, the silly GWRBI stat that he owned until they stopped it, in the box with the game on the line, I will go to my grave believing that prime Eddie was the man that pitchers of his day feared most.
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15 minutes ago, ChuckS said:
I put team chemistry in the same category as veteranosity. It only exists (or is pointed out) when a team is winning. It's not a real thing in baseball that contributes to wins in any quantifiable way. I will admit that developing a good rapport with your pitchers, as a catcher is somewhat valuable but it doesn't apply to any other position on the field. I think the Orioles are proving how important good players are to winning.
While this might be the "conventional wisdom" I was around for Frank's arrival and in 1966 he turned a very good team into the best franchise in baseball for about 25 years. The "Oriole Way" was real, and it was copied by teams like Cleveland and St. Louis. Other than Frank, I can't recall ANY OTHER PLAYER that had this dramatic an impact on a MLB roster, period!! You think Gunnar and GRod did this? Frazier? Gibson? The #Orioles are 94-66 (.588) in the 160 games that Rutschman has played in during his MLB career.. The Orioles were a 51-109 (.319) the previous 160 games before his arrival. Has any player ever changed one team's fortunes that quickly?
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16 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:
It's hard to define his value in just WAR because it's clear this team's turn around directly corresponds with his promotion to the Orioles.
Frobby pointed towards it early when he stated "Adley has this blend of humility and confidence that just rubs off on his teammates. You can tell the pitchers just love him."
It's like the moment he walked onto the field, shook the umpire's hand, had a few words, got behind the plater and that just kind of looked around the whole stadium and took it all in. He may not ever knew it then, but it feels like he was more saying, "Don't worry folks, I'm here now. It's all going to better now!"
I remember that clip, and then he got down in his crouch and looked at the ground for a few seconds. I don't know if he was just focusing or taking it all in, but I like to think he was telling himself, "yeah, I got this".
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8 hours ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:
Cano has also pitched four out of the past five days. Cano might be available in a high leverage situation, but I have to think the O’s are going to avoid using him if possible.
Cano has been pitch efficient, but at some point you can’t pitch him everyday.
Absolutely agree, I was ONLY talking about high-leverage, 1 inning usage, kinda "break glass in event of emergency".
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I still think Buck remembered using Jim Johnson in a tie game with NYY in the playoffs in 2012. JJ, in a non-save situation, coughed up 5 runs. I remember saying to the person sitting next to me, "the game is over because Buck used JJ" in that situation. I really think that experience affected Buck's Britton decision in 2016.
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Cano had 19 and 13 pitches the last 2 games vs Bautista 25 and 31, you might be able to get 1 out of Cano.
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I think you are confusing Austin with Brady, just saying!
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7 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:
Yep, the O's fans were much better off getting to cheer for Davis back in 2019.
Personally, I vote for the BASH Brothers, they were fun, roids or not.
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3 hours ago, Sports Guy said:
They need to win a lot more to be an elite team imo…starters have to be better. But they are damn good. A lot of pressure on Cano and Bautista going forward though. It’s amazing what an elite BP can do for a team.
Absolutely correct but asking this bunch to win a lot more is probably a bridge too far, but there are better parts coming, probably in the second half. I don't think either Bautista or Cano can wrap their heads around what has happened to them in the last year or so. Bautista was in the system under DD and not really progressing, Cano was an older, unproductive RP in MIN. I don't care if ME or the Sig-bot or Holt saw whatever in them at this point. They have demonstrated the ability to find and develop valuable assets out of other's spare parts. The grizzled vets seem really happy to be part of maybe something special. The kids all have each other's back. This feels like 1982 to me where we hang around for the first and get onto overdrive in the second half leading to that WS in 2024 the @Bmorewins so desperately needs.
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11 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:
Can you imagine the angst if the O's had drafted Tex and then he signed with the Yankees as a free agent?
I know this is TOTALLY What if world, but IMHO, there is no freaking way PA would have let Tex go to NY without more than matching that first contract. He debuted in like 2003 and was traded a couple times before NY in 2008 for 8 years. Pretty sure he was "worth" that contract in WAR. No freaking way PA trades Tex or lets him go to NYY as a FA. After Mu$$ina went to NY in what 2001?? Absolutely no way loses twice to NYY. He had the law firm and MASN and was willing to deficit spend.
If you were Adley, what contract terms would you agree to today if offered?
in Orioles Talk
Posted
Truthfully, I don't either but SG said, I don’t understand why people keep saying he “probably won’t accept these offers”.
I was just stating the implied reason, Boras has created that myth over the year.