Pickles

Yes, his career of not having a high K rate and "not missing bats." Dude, calm down. Take a breath.

I can't believe there's a limit on how many comp picks you can get now. Is there?

If he has a typical Means season next year, he's going to make so much more than 3/45.

I'm going to ignore all the rest of your histrionics and continue. So you're saying you wouldn't go above 3/15 extension for John Means? Edit: I just can't help myself! I'm as bad as you! LOL I assure you I didn't look up that thread but I remembered it. I'm glad you linked it because it basically validates my claim. You: He's "no good." Me: Eh. He hasn't been terrible and he's trending well besides the injures. How's he "no good?" You: His career and age. Me: Well he's performed well recently when healthy. Why does his "career" mean he's "no good?" You: He didn't strike guys out over 12 innings last year. Reductionist.

No you specifically said Coulombe was "no good" and cited his 5.6 K rate from 2022. In 12 innings. It had nothing to do with the "last 5 or 6 years" as Coulombe had been decent when he pitched in 2022 and 2021. Now nobody thought he was going to do what he's done, but you immediately wrote him off because of his K rate. You have reductionist thinking and it leads to bad analysis. Regarding Mateo, I never said he was an everyday player; I said he deserved the opportunity to play every day going into this season, and in the halcyon days of April, I would have said he deserved to be the starting SS until he proved he wasn't. Well, he proved he wasn't, and Elias and I apparently came to that decision pretty simultaneously. I will confess I have continued to argue Mateo has a role on the roster, but I think that argument has only grown stronger over the last month or so. This is the main problem with trying to interact with you here. Whenever somebody points out something you said that has proven to be a bad take, you immediately accuse them of "lying," "trolling," or "misrepresenting." Even when you're being directly quoted verbatim. And then immediately proceed to misrepresent something that person has said. The point I'm making here isn't to shine a light on you having a bad take believe it or not. My point is that exploring extending Means is something a prudent team would be doing and dismissing it as "making no sense" is a myopic take, and likely to be a bad one. That you cite his lowered K rate this year in a small sample size is what prompts the comparison to the exact same take you had on Coulombe, which was a bad one. What's a contract he "shouldn't?" Let's get some numbers here. A 4/48 is what I proposed. RZNJ thought it wouldn't be enough.

The idea that anyone is advocating for Means based on one start is a ridiculous strawman of your own making. Nor is anyone "ignoring" Ks. But saying 17 innings of good pitching with low ks isn't some warning sign. That you reduce all pitching analysis to k rate, even in miniscule sample sizes, is absurd. Btw, didn't you say Coloumbe was "no good" because of his low k rate last season in a miniscule sample? Why yes. Yes you did.

For sure. I just wouldn't classify Bradish as a breakout candidate, as his breakout already happened this season.

Grayson Rodriguez sure seems like a candidate to take a major leap next year.

Then that's fine, and you walk away. But it sure makes a lot of sense to explore it.

Your obsession with Ks in miniscule sample sizes has been commented on elsewhere. A guy goes 7.1 and gives up 1 h and 1 er and "only" 4 ks is not a bad start. It's a very, very good start. He's pitching exactly like he's always pitched: Quite well. He's already been worth half a win in 17+ innings. There's nothing to suggest that Means is any more risky than any other FA pitcher. Probably less so with TJ out of the way. The last best time to sign him will be this offseason, owner or not.

Is he not pitching as we speak or something?

If Means were to have a 2024 that was similar in value to his 2022 then he would be looking at minimum 4/80 as a FA imo. Sure, you can't guarantee that Means will be as good as he was, but all evidence so far suggests he's going to be, so the contract has a risk aspect to it (they all do of course) but that's why you can get a "discount." Now, no, you're not going to be able to pay his as LOOGY, thus removing all risk from the O's side of the equation, but there's a middle ground to be had, or at least explored. He should be in the ~3 million range for salary next year. What if you went to him and offered him 4/48?

I'd be more surprised if he pitched in 2024 than in the 2023 playoffs.

Nobody knows.

Means' body of work far exceeds one start. You really don't have "plenty of time." You basically have this offseason. If you fail to sign him this offseason, and he goes into the season and pitches as he always has, then he's going to test FA. If you want any kind of "discount" it has to be this offseason.

And that's the question. And maybe they try to find that sweet spot and it isn't there. But that doesn't mean it doesn't make sense to explore it.

Dude just took a no-hitter into the 7th inning. It makes a lot of sense to keep a guy like that around.

Why? You can debate the merits of it, but it's not insensible.

And if not, he'll be in the major league pen. I think his AAA days are over.

They're going to bring in some bullpen guys, but it's unlikely they spend or give up anything of real value in order to do that. I'm sure they feel pretty confident in their ability to construct a bullpen on the cheap. I think the most pressing issue on the positional side will be that it's likely only one of Urias or Mateo have a roster spot next year. So they'll need to decide who, and what to do with the other. Personally, I'd keep Mateo in that scenario, but there are a lot of variables that could change that.

Exactly. He needs rest.

Something far too often overlooked. It's a general criticism I have of Hyde as compared to Buck Showalter.

Webb, Bauman, or Perez.

Somebody needs to be "hurt" tonight, at least one, and some fresh arms brought up. Irvin at the top of the list.

They need some fresh arms. ASAP