Pickles

And that's a perfectly reasonable take. And I agree. There's work to be done.

I know what it means, and that's why I objected. You misused it, because it's a strawman to justify your own beliefs. Where do you see on this board "obsessive" or "overzealous" worship of Elias? A show of hands here. How many of ya'll have pictures of Elias on your wall? Writing him feverish fan mail? Waiting outside the Warehouse for an autograph? So yeah, there aren't any "stans" here. Only fans. And again, what has he done here that he shouldn't be lavishly praised for? Sure, individual moves can be debated, but the overall body of work is outstanding, almost astounding imo. None of us are deluded, synchophantic, uncritical morons. There is a vast middle ground between that and spilling 30,000 words in three months on how much we hate the Adam Frazier signing.

Oh, a sTaN. Sorry I don't speak gibberish.

Why isn't this board full of Elias' fans? He's executed a text-book rebuild basically as perfectly as could be asked for.

And yet they're talking about the same thing. Ironic.

I don't think that would be appropriate on Valentine's Day.

Sure the equation is actually a little more complex. Again though I think it shows the FO's bias: They're going to prioritize defense. Be it playing Mateo at SS, or not playing Urias at 2b.

I don't know if Elias "underrates" Urias, but it's clear, both this year and last, they don't want him playing 150 games at 2b.

LOL. Well, but I'm "right." My take was perfectly reasonable. I was "wrong" about them giving him 500 PAs performing as he did.

I went and read through the rest of the thread, and I stand by everything I wrote. He did have "upside," at least in comparison to who he replaced in Richie Martin. And I also wrote he was exremely unlikely to fulfill that upside, which, unfortunately, turned out to be true. I did not think he would get as many ABs as he did, particularly the way he performed, but they clearly valued something about him last year that was not directly tied to his on-field performance. And I tend to defer in such situations.

I edited my post, but I went and read it and I stand by it tbh. He was league-minimum signing, aged 27, with multiple years of 30+ Hrs in the past (fairly distant admittedly.) I didn't think he'd fulfill that upside, but it was there if you squint. I didn't think we'd be competive last year; I was wrong about that. If I'd known that, I'd have wanted somethign different obviously.

What did I say? He did have upside, relative to other league minimum signings. Ok, I went and read what I wrote. I mentioned his upside directly in context of his expense. I stand by it.

He had upside relative to the other options available for the league minimum. I think the differing angst is based solely on expectations of the team, and I think that is perfectly normal.

Well, I wouldn't say I have rules. I guess I'm just saying injuries imo are more predictable than unpredictable.

Not to be pedantic, but that requires not only all 8 of those guys to be healthy on OD, but also all 5 starters- Gibson, Irvin, Kremer, Bradish, Rodriguez- to be healthy as well. I'd bet against that being the case.

He's been very clear about this: He's not going to make moves to win now at the expense of the future. It's not a mystery. He's directly stated it.

I think a C is a pretty fair grade. And I'm a little more bullish on the projections but we're in the same ball park. If people want to crap on the Frazier move, go ahead. I've heard it all before and I'm just going to zone it out. But to say the O's or Elias are "punting" the season, or not "trying to win" or he doesn't "believe" in the team is demonstrably untrue and I guess I still have enough fight in me to push back against that.

I agree with basically all of this. The Irvin trade makes me feel a lot better about this offseason, and, outside of Frazier, the other moves were all perfectly reasonable and solid. People are essentially going insane about the Frazier deal because they insist upon looking at it through the worst lens possible. I mean, Frazier has nothing to do with Odor, so any criticism of this move by evoking Odor is hollow. Yes, if it's June and Frazier has a 600 OPS and Westburg has a 900 OPS in AAA, and Frazier is playing every day then I'll be livid. But I'm not going to assume that happens until it comes to pass. And I'd almost guarantee that it doesn't.

There's a world of difference between Gunnar's and Westburg's situation.

What part of handing jobs to prospects screams out "We're all in!" Again, ya'll want it both ways.

Isn't the complaint he spent too much money on a veteran? Seems like it you fellas want it both ways.

He said the goal is to make the playoffs. Clearly he believes in this team.

Uh, hooking someone's testicles up to a car battery sure encourages forthrightness!

I don't think the issue is the questions asked. I reject the idea that if only the press would ask him the hard questions we'd get some hard facts. He's not going to reveal propietary information, and he's not going to say anything that could be remotely twisted to criticize someone. The issue isgoing to be the answers.