LTO's

I suppose the only good news about this is that they would likely need a lease extension to enter into any agreement for the naming rights...

Givens is pitching today per Roch

Fair. In my opinion, Cade Povich is the most important player returned in a trade in regards to Elias legacy so far. If he's not a big league contributor, that might be his worst trade.

None of these are that bad. In terms of potential value lost, the Yaz trade clears all of these by a mile. Why didn't you just say that Frazier was the worst move he's made (for the 100th time) instead of reaching on moves that really were marginal at best?

At this stage the calculation is different. If Santander gives you 30+ HRs and Urias gives you a steady to plus glove with a solid floor at the plate what would be the return you would need to move on from them? I've said if they can get a true difference maker for the big league team for those guys, sure. I don't think those offers are on the table right now so I'd keep them and not rush anything because I'm scared I won't get the max "value" for them.

I would have done the Mancini deal for that return. I think that was more than most thought we'd get back for him plus he was showing signs of wearing down as we approached the deadline. I don't think I would have done the Lopez trade but ultimately I don't think either meaningfully affected their playoff chances like some do.

Yeah I mean it would have been nice if he got the playing time Stevie Wilkerson did in 2019 but outside of that it's a big meh. After that year they gave the ABs to younger guys like Hays, Mullins, Santander and DJ Stewart (who I did not know was 3.5 years younger than Yaz). I wonder if they would've been able to get anything of value for him if he had similar success here. His age and the general scouting consensus on him when he was in the minors would make that a tricky situation.

I think so too but I don't think it's realistic to think all of these guys are going to be able to be traded. Barring a complete collapse in production I'd prefer to keep Santander and Mullins around for as long as possible rather than trade them for a middling return just to get some "value." There's nothing inherently wrong with keeping players until their contracts run out. It seems like some people religiously believe that there is.

And I'm replying because you always mention him without fail. I don't think Elias can do no wrong but if this is the best example of him being wrong I think we're in great shape. He basically had a fluke year's worth of games of being really good and outside of that, he's been about as good as Austin Hays who most think should be traded immediately.

As soon as I hit send without specifying 'big leaguer' I knew you would respond with this lol. Your commitment to this bit is not declining. Unlike Yaz

Again not comparable. Same with Givens. Unless I'm mistaken, I don't think Elias has traded a position player with multiple years of control left in his tenure here. That's what we're talking about with Urias, Mateo, Hays, Mullins, Santander.

That went about as good as you could ask for. If that velocity holds, we're in great shape.

The players you mentioned were on an expiring contract on terrible teams. Lopez had a year left and was on a good team so that's why I said he was the most comparable. Someone like Austin Hays or Ramon Urias might be a role player but they aren't in a hurry to trade them clearly because they aren't sure the 50-55FVish prospects they have below him are going to be better in the short term. I don't understand what you aren't getting? If Cowser or Stowers or Vavra came up last year and had a high level of success, I think discussing trading Santander or Hays or Urias would have more merit. There's still a high degree of uncertainty with those players and prospect volatility is a real thing. That's why I don't think anyone should be stressing out about them not trading these "role players" right away.

I don't think trading position players with multiple years of control is the focus, no.

None of these are comparable to the players being discussed now. Lopez would be the closest but he's also a reliever. He had his eventual replacement show he was capable at the big league level which is what I'm talking about. The prospects need to be phased in and show they are better than the vets we have now. If they aren't, and you traded your big leaguers away with years of control left, that is worse than keeping them as starters for a half year-year too long.

Seemed like you were talking about trading those guys now. I would like to see guys like Cowser, Norby, Ortiz, Westburg. Mayo etc. phased in slowly with the backing of established big league vets with somewhat established floors. IMO none of them are really close to the level of prospect that Gunnar or Adley were and I don't think they can be trusted to handle starting roles right now.

I've been saying this for a while. Reading between the lines of his "the first year of the contract is usually the best" remark it was clear they were never going to go multi year to 33+ year old guys like Bassit and Eovaldi at this stage. I think they wanted Syndergaard this year and were willing to give him an extra year or so but he chose LA.

It's not wrong. What trade has Elias made that would be comparable with trading Mullins, Santander, Hays, Urias etc. right now?

Elias and co. are not nearly as obsessed with trading players on the big league club and getting "max value" as many on this board are for some reason. Some (most?) of these bottom of the top 100 lists and beyond prospects we have will not be immediate upgrades to some of the players being discussed as obvious trade pieces if they are at all. You need established big leaguers and you don't need to trade all of them. The cream will rise to the top when it comes to the prospects or they may be traded if you can find a partner, but not having a base of established big league vets year in year out is how you fail.

Rosenthal has a piece on the Athletic focusing solely on the Orioles and how they are planning for the future. Not a lot of new revelations or anything but I had not heard Elias say this and found it interesting. Link to article below. Not normally given to hyperbole, Elias says the Orioles’ top 10 prospects are “the deepest I’ve been around” — no small statement from an executive who, during his time in the Astros’ front office, played a major role in building a system that produced Carlos Correa, Lance McCullers Jr., Alex Bregman and Kyle Tucker. https://theathletic.com/4267080/2023/03/02/orioles-prospects-outlook-rosenthal/

Agreed that a trade is highly unlikely. Trades are extremely difficult to pull off in general but especially in this case. Only SG thinks that they are really easy and anyone not doing them is stupid. However, I disagree that Lux and Vargas project to be considerably better long term middle infield options. For one, Vargas is not a middle infielder. In fact, it's pretty likely that he's not an infielder at all and will be a 1B/COF big leaguer. Lux I would agree with but ACL injuries can be pretty nasty. He's obviously going to miss this entire season and will most likely not be fully healthy for the start of the next season as well. That's a long wait. I think Mateo is the best and most attainable SS option they can acquire but they might not be particularly motivated to give up good prospects. It's hard to get teams to do that.

Mateo had a meaningfully higher fWAR and bWAR and a higher wRC+/OPS/OPS+. He's also much younger. I think the Dodgers would very much like to have Mateo over Rojas but could be looking to hold on to pieces for a deadline move.

Buster Olney is reporting the injury is really bad. Can't imagine the Dodgers roll into the season without acquiring another ML caliber SS.

What is the context that you think people are missing?

Well when the guy never speaks, and is only speaking now because of a colossal screw up the last time he did, I think it's fair to pay close attention to each sentence. The fans want some level of reassurance that his family will invest and lead the team to better times. Instead we got, "I saved so much money during the pandemic and going forward we are going to operate like the Rays and Brewers." He's telling everyone that this team will be consistently in the bottom 5-10 teams in terms of payroll for the foreseeable future. Knowing this, why should any fan give a damn about how he made out better than other owners during the pandemic? Some "facts" are better left unsaid.