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Well what happened with the team over the 2 years during the contract? You can't really if say if something was worth it without knowing what happened during the time period you are determining the worth of.

I guess it depends on how you define "worth it". Worth it as in a few wins over the course of a year that could be the difference in a playoff spot and not making it? Worth it as in saving money to keep the team payroll low and getting someone competent enough to take the ball every 5th game and give the team a chance to win?

They’re big ifs but if Rodriguez and Means were healthy and pitching to their capabilities I’d consider both of them “TOR” pitchers and would have no problem with them as the first two starters in a playoff series.

Yeah, there is no way they sign one in free agency. Hard to say if they’d trade for one or not as we haven’t seen them do any buy trades yet. If Rodriguez is an ace the team would likely be a legitimate World Series contender while he’s in Baltimore.

It all depends on how you define "TOR". The Astros won the World Series and had 4 starters with an ERA under 3. The Phillies lost the World Series and had two pitchers most I would think are looked as "TOR" in Nola and Wheeler. The 2021 Braves had two starters with an ERA under 3, the 2020 Dodgers had 3, the 2019 Nationals had Strasburg, Scherzer, and depending on what you thought of him at the time Corbin. Regardless of what the stat is you use to define "TOR" most of these teams all had very talented starting pitchers that could be defined as either "TOR" or the potential to be one. If you want to win a World Series your best bet is to have a couple of guys viewed as "TOR" type guys so you can match them against your opponents top pitchers. If you want to be consistently good and in the playoff mix then you just need a group of solid and reliable guys like the 2012-16 O's had.

Hopefully it means they want to get someone who bats from the left side and can bat somewhere in the top 5 of the order so neither of them have to bat that high in the order and can be eased into their roles. Realistically it probably means that they don't think either will be everyday players and don't plan on giving either of them a starting spot to prove they can play.

That seems pretty crazy for a guy who has played three full seasons in his career (and one was 2020).

I don't know how you would classify the class whose first year was the shortened 2020 season but here goes: 2019-20 Gerrit Cole - 9 years Yankees, 1st year best Stephen Strasburg - 7 years Nationals, 7 starts since contract so can't really say Madison Bumgarner - 5 years Diamondbacks, 1st year was worst year so far Zack Wheeler - 5 years Phillies, basically the same all 3 years but technically first year was best year Hyun-Jin Ryu - 4 years Blue Jays, 1st year best year Kyle Gibson - 3 years Rangers, 2nd year best year Josh Lindblom - 3 years Brewers, didn't start after first year had a 5.16era in first year though Dallas Keuchel - 3 years White Sox, 1st year best year When you look at this class you're talking about 4 out of 8 had their first year as their best year. It's hard to really say for sure though since none of them made more than 10-12 starts.

According to the free agent tracker on MLBTradeRumors the below are the pitchers that signed as free agents for 3+ years from 2016-2019. Still a small sample size but looking at the below you'll see that only 3 out of 11 had their first year of their new contract as their best year during the contract. The list seems small and I'm surprised there weren't more 3+ year deals so if I missed any let me know. Ivan Nova's stats were similar in his first 2 years so really only 2 had a big drop off after their first year (Arrieta and Corbin). 2016-2017 Ivan Nova - 3 years Pittsburgh, 1st year best year but 1st and 2nd year were close Rich Hill - 3 years Dodgers, 3rd year best year statistically but only 58.2 innings, was good all 3 years 2017-18 Yu Darvish - 6 years Cubs, 1st year was his worst year Alex Cobb - 4 years Orioles, 4th year was his best year Tyler Chatwood - 3 years Cubs, 2nd year was his best year Mike Minor - 3 years Rangers, 2nd year was his best year Jake Arrieta - 3 years Phillies, 1st year was his best year 2018-19 Patrick Corbin - 6 years Nationals, 1st year was his best year Nathan Eovaldi - 4 years Red Sox, 1st year was his worst year Yusei Kikuchi - 4 years Mariners, 3rd year was his best year Lance Lynn - 3 years Rangers, 3rd year was his best year

Not sure about the rest of the league but the last few the O's gave out have not worked out that way. Wei-Yin Chen's best 2 seasons were his 3rd and 4th season Ubaldo's best was his 2nd season Cobb's best season over his contract was his 4th season (with the Angels). Statistically his 3rd year was his best in Baltimore but it was only over 52.1 innings. His first was the only time he threw a full season and even that was only 152.1. Small sample obviously but it doesn't ring true in terms of long term free agent pitching deals given out by the O's.

Someone needs to get him away from microphones at this point.

“I think there were years here recently where the team was over its means.” Wow, what a quote.

Well, to the first point I would strongly disagree and think a team with deGrom and Heaney in their rotation would want all the major league ready pitching depth they could have pitching in AAA. To the second point I guess it depends on how you view Santander's season last year. If you think that's who he is going forward he's a 2+ WAR guy then sure that makes sense. I would doubt most teams expect that to continue though.

The O's have signed one major league contract. The A's have signed two (Peterson and Aledmys Diaz)

I highly doubt they're interested in him at all. They've already stated they don't see themselves as AL East contenders in 2023 so trading for a guy who would be leaving in 2026 doesn't seem like something they'd be interested in this offseason. It would also seem odd to me that a team who only drafts hitters in the early rounds and has a bunch of OF projected to be major league ready sometime between this post and 2025 would trade for an OF. Plus, they already have Mullins in CF. Reynolds 2021 - .302/.390/.522 for 6.1 fWAR and 6.0 bWAR Reynolds 2022 - .262/.345/.461 for 2.9 fWAR and 2.9 bWAR Mullins 2021 - .291/.360/.518 with 6.0 fWAR and 5.7 bWAR Mullins 2022 - .258/.318/.403 with 3.4 fWAR and 3.8 bWAR So yeah, he's definitely better offensively. I don't think he's really a big upgrade over Mullins when you take defense into account though.

If you needed a LF would you trade a 1-2 WAR 4ish era guy who hasn't entered arbitration yet for a 1-2 WAR outfielder whose defense is declining and is going to make 7+ million? For me, I would much rather have Dunning.

There are so many questions that I feel they can win anywhere from 75-85 and I wouldn't be surprised. They're going to be more talented but there's going to be some regression from others. For every Mountcastle that seemed to be unfortunate there was a Kremer who seemed to be fortunate. I think it's certainly possible that they're a better overall team next year but end up winning less games. My best guess is this is what the front office also thinks and is why they aren't prepared to make a big push to win in 2023.

He's regressed each year since his 2020 breakout in the abbreviated campaign. I would rather just give Norby, Westburg, or whoever they think the long term answer at 2B is going to be a chance.

Yeah, it does seem that way. It's very odd to me considering his slash line of .253/.306/.418 in 34 games where he was in and out of the lineup randomly was better than Hays who played every day. It's not even that far off Santander's slash line and he was the #3 hitter last year.

Makes sense, Manny will get more than 5/150 if he has another big year.

So if last year wasn't a fluke why are they openly saying they don't think they can compete for the AL East this year and are hoping to make the playoffs but aren't going to do anything to make the playoffs that could potentially have a negative impact on the 2024 and beyond teams?

I'm not sure how it would mean they don't believe in what they are doing. If anything I would think it would enhance their belief. They keep saying they're ahead of schedule based on last year. I think it's pretty obvious that they didn't expect the team to be competing for a playoff spot into the last few weeks of the season like they did. Then, when the team was competing at the trade deadline, they traded off their closer and their #2/#3 hitter in the lineup and did nothing to help the team make the playoffs. I'm not saying those were the wrong moves but those aren't moves made by a team that thinks they're for real.

The way I see it is they think last year was a fluke and want to see them do it again before taking it seriously. What doesn't make sense to me is that he said he doesn't want to hurt the 2024, 2025, etc. teams by blocking prospects yet last year they had two guys who have a chance at becoming everyday major league players (Stowers and Vavra) sitting on the bench watching Rougned Odor and Jesus Aguilar play.

I remember they had 8 prospects in the top 100 in 2019. Tatis - superstar, injury prone, performance enhancer suspension recovering from injury. still with the padres Gore - career 4.50 era Urias - solid 2 WAR everyday player for the Brewers Paddack - injury issues, career 4.20 era, just had Tommy John Patino - career 5.10 era Mejia - backup catcher Morejon - career 5.05 era, still with the padres Allen - career 5.89 era When you look at what became of all those top 100 guys it looks to me like they made the right decision in trading most of them away to bring in proven major leaguers and compete for a World Series.

Well, that's up to the community as a whole. If you aren't interested turn it off and eventually if enough people do maybe it'll change. I don't think it's a good goal either. Look at the Padres their media market is 27th and they are spending around 250m this year while Baltimore is 28th and is spending (as of now) around 50m while they tell you it's just the way it is for a team in their market going against teams from bigger markets. They can tell you that they're being smart and this is how smart teams operate all they want but the fact is the Orioles owners aren't in it for championships they're in it to make money. Maybe they were chasing titles in the past, maybe they will be chasing them again in the future, but as of right now that's not what they're after.