Tony-OH

Littell up there dominating with his awe inspiring 92 MPH fastball, 81 MPH slider and 84 MPH Changeup. Wow, when can we determine that this is who this team is offensively on most days? When can we determine that the vertical launch angle hitting philosophy brought on this year is a failure?

Melanie: (Voice gets high like he really got into a pitch) Maton with the launch angle!! (Maton flies out on a can of corn to medium RF).

I'm watching on Roku. I don't think I can pick the announcers.

Didn't even realize the game started at 11:45 today. Turned on Roku, and what do I hear? Melanie. She was giving us some detailed analysis of talking to a pitcher about whether he liked starting or relieving better. She then gave us this nugget, "They're different, as a reliever they have to pitch more often and as a starter it's every 5th day." Deep analysis!

I get it, Mayo hasn't hit much and his defense has been shaky to say the least. So why did they call him back up? Of course, the question is, who else? I mean, for a team that has been drafting a ton college hitters over the last 6 years, the fact that they have Eloy, Rivera, Slater, and Maton on the roster and Mayo still can't crack the lineup tells me something has gone awry!

That was quite the bomb.

Thanks for the defensive observations.

You are certainly welcome to your opinion, but I don't need five more years of Elias' draft strategy to see that it may not be the best strategy after the first round. We have enough data points to show that the only pure hitting prospects for major league ready pitching netted the team Trevor Rogers. Elfin and Burnes also cost pitching, which not surprisingly were a former 1st round pick (Hall), and 2nd round pick (Baumeister) along with hitting prospects. Elias has yet to trade for young impact pitching prospects with his hitting prospects or even impact pitching with JUST hitting prospects. The strategy of picking hitters high in the first round appears to be pretty solid, and I'm not questioning that at all, but ignoring pitching prospects for the most part in the first five rounds of the draft has led the organization to have a gap in impact pitching prospects throughout the organization. This is specially noticeable in AAA this year, which necessitated trading for Soto which not coincidentally cost them two more pitching prospects (Seth Johnson and Moises Chace) not hitting prospects.

Huh? That doesn't even make sense unless we're using different meanings for conclusions. A conclusion to me is, "He's a bust!" or "He'll never make it!" based on his pro numbers. Saying that he's need some reworking in the offseason is not going out on much of a limb and is an observation.

I'm not going to draw any conclusions off his start to his professional career, but the amount of miss is enough to give me a little pause. Now, he could very well be a slow starter kind of guy who because of his late start is why he's really struggle to find his footing, but he's going to need a lot of reworking this offseason. Either way, we'll know a lot more after next season then we know right now. No reason to write him off, but also no reason to be overly optimistic. There's lots of talent in there. This will be a great test for the hitting development staff.

Would have liked to have seen him moved to AA at some point over the last month. A 24-year old on a 75-pitch count limit who did well against younger competition, but still had command issues. Maybe next season they'll push him a little more aggressively at 25-years old.

Nice work on the chart, but I do think the pitch limits are more notable than innings since all innings are not the same. but as you said, I can't imagine that being an easy workload to gather that data.

That is a much better Baumeister than I saw with Aberdeen this year. Whatever the Rays did, they found something. Still, you have to give up something to get something and this team was in dire need of Eflin, so I still have no issues with him being traded.

I agree with this. While we don't have "rules" per se on up or down voting, down voting should be for when someone breaks a rule or attacks people personally, not for just a disagreement of thoughts.

You are not going to last long here unless you change your attitude quickly. This is not how we communicate around here. Quite simply, adjust your tone.

Rhodes is kind of the poster boy for the Orioles drafting guys with some tools, but coming off a down year at the plate (.251 the year he was drafted as a draft eligible Soph). He was given an over slot bonus $1,375,000 in a draft where Mason Miller went 21 picks later to the A's for $599,100 and Cade Povich went 22 picks later to the Twins for $500k. Now, I know you can do this with most drafts, but the real focus here is on the Orioles insistence of drafting these college project bats like Rhodes over attempting to get some upside college arms. Rhodes and Carter Young are guys they gave big bonuses to after having down years, and neither has developed much with their bats. Back to Trimble, he's a guy who started to show some potential, but the injury bug haunts him and he still doesn't have a lot of pop. Saying that, i like him better than Rhodes or Young. We've yet to see the Orioles take a low performer and make them into a valuable major league asset. Could Jud Fabian take a 4th outfielder role some time next year and be the first, that's a possibility.

Baumeister was already on the cusp of the top 10 when he was traded so yes. Seeing that Chace had the ability to pitch into 80+ pitches effectively at the AA level would have shot him up the list for sure.

Right, he's just been more pitch efficient with the Rays. I just find it interesting that their new teams have found ways to make all of them better initially. Some believe the Elias regime have some kind of magic fairy dust that makes players better when they come into this organization because of the success of relievers like Perez, Cano, Webb, and Coulombe, but when you see their young pitching prospects getting selected by teams in trades, and then they have better success right away, it does make you wonder. Johnson was almost 26-years old and wasn't allowed to throw 70 pitches in a game and only made it to 5 innings in two of his starts with the Orioles. Why? I can kinda understand 18-21 year olds being under fairly strict pitching counts, but even the college pitchers are getting put under pretty strict limits when they were throwing 90+ pitches a game in college. I just don't get why the Orioles have taken this route when it's shown no ability to limit injuries or produce major league pitching effectively. I just want to interview Elias and it would probably go like this: Elias: You want answers? Me: I want the truth! Elias: You can't handle the truth! Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men who throw baseballs. Who's gonna do it? You? You, @Frobby? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Johnson and you curse our development staff. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know, that Johnson's development with us, while tragic, probably saved other young pitchers arms. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves those arms! You don't want the truth, because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me protecting those arms. You need me protecting those arms. We use words like "innings limit", "low pitch counts", "4 inning starts". We use these words as the backbone of a baseball life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline on that Orioles Hangout. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very organization that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it! I would rather you just said "thank you", and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a baseball, and try to throw more than 70 pitches in an outing once a week. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to! Me: A little dramatic there Mike. I just think you should let your pitchers throw more pitches and innings once they hit 21 years old. Sheesh!

I find it interesting that the Phillies took the training wheels off Seth Johnson and Moises Chace and they've flourished. The Orioles never allowed Johnson to throw more than 69 pitches in an outing. With the Phillies he threw 68, 76, 84, 98, 82 before getting promoted to the big leagues. They did the same with Chace who threw a season high 77 pitches in April with the Orioles, but since June was neve allowed to pitch more than 59 pitches in a start. With the Phillies is thrown 65, 86, 89, 89, 81. In his three Double-A starts with pitch counts all over 80, he's held batters to a .137/.214/.216/.430 with 29K and just 5 walks in 15.2 innings. Maybe, just maybe, keeping pitchers on tight pitch counts and not being aggressive with promotions when they're doing well is not the best way to produce major league pitching?

I only mentioned the good players. lol I keed, I keed. But you're right, it's been one thing after another this season so far.

Ha, that's what the game threads are for. We just have to make sure not to bleed it over to the rest of the board.

Living and dying with every play and being outrageously emotional is game thread stuff. lol Once it's over, time to go back to the reality. While the Orioles are a flawed team, it's a team that will be in the playoffs. How deep they go will depend on a lot of factors, but that's for another thread. No, Hyde is not going to get fired or resign, no should he. As fans, we are never going to agree all the time with the moves made by the manager or coach, but as I've always said, the overall results are what counts. The Orioles are in first place by a half game over the Yankees in September 5th. If you had told me that on opening day, I would have taken that especially if you would have told my that Bradish, Wells, Means, Rodriguez, Westburg, Coulombe and Webb would all be on the IL and probably only Webb is pretty assured of being back and ready go soon.

Are some of you still living and dying with each game? Even a 100-win team is going to lose 62 games a year. This is not a 100-win team, but a team that's going to the playoffs. The other team gets paid too, and yes, the White Sox are putrid, but even they will have days that go their way. The Orioles just went 4-2 against the Rockies and Whitesox. That was the minimal acceptable record because you can never expect a sweep. Yankees lost, so this banged up team is still in first place on September 5th. Let's start "living and dying" with games come October.

They typically will send pitchers who missed time this year dur to injury and need some additional innings or non prospects to fill out the team. Offensively, depending on the positions they get to fill, usually it's guys that they feel need a challenge against better pitching to help them focus on things in the offseason. Since the eligibility has changed since 2021 (Now all players within the organization are eligible not just one player under Double-A, they could decide to send a Honeycutt to get additional reps if they think reps are the issue or they may choose to give him a plan to work on. My thoughts on guys they may consider sending: Reed Trimble -OF (if healthy as he's out right now with maybe a hamstring tweak again?) Tavian Josenberger - 2B/CF (if healthy but he's on the 6-day IL so whatever happened to him he's probably out for awhile) Carter Young - SS (They spent a lot of monet on him and he's never hit. Off to a good start in AA after his good game last night so maybe he goes to try and keep that going) Jud Fabian - CF (Fabian has had a long season and stayed healthy, but he's a guy they may want to give more reps too) Creed Willems - C (Again, long season for him but might use this as a bit of an award for his solid season. Plus he's another big bonus guy like Young.) Maverick Handley - C (He's a guy who still has the defensive chops to be a backup) Silas Ardoin - C (See Handley.. lol)

I'll have a lot more on the International players during the top 75 write ups. There is definitely talent with upside in the group you mentioned and I'd add Cuevas and Arias to that list as well.