Tony-OH

Do you think if Odor was not here this year the team would not be where they are? How much impact do you think his veteranosity adds? I think Odor is a good clubhouse guy, but I don't for a second think he's some kind of reason why this team is doing some well. The team is 10-2 when he doesn't play. Is that because he's so good at cheerleading when he doesn't play? Every single number tells us that Odor is not a good MLB player. We are trying to be a contender. We do not need replacement level or below players starting every game when there are replacements that need to be seen. Maybe Vavra is not the answer. I'd rather give him a nice long look this year vs giving Odor playing time. Maybe its just me. Who knows? Maybe his veteranosity powers are beyond understanding? If the team played better with him in the games I might be swayed, but again, the facts show otherwise.

You may be right unfortunately. Or Bradish.

That's Odor to a tee. For every good thing he does (and that was a nice oppo groundball to ge the run in) he does something that hurts his team.

That's an oblique... Good bye... So who is next up? Couldn't afford that.

If your entire point is you think playing a replacement level player, who using your own metric of wins and losses when he plays, shows he does not help the team win more than he hurts the team, because the team happens to be 14-6 in a month in which he starts mostly, then ok. That's your right to have that opinion. As for being insulted, that's your right too. People are easily insulted nowadays so I'm used to seeing people upset over somebody busting your balls.

We'll have to agree or disagree on this one. There are certain posters that love every player like they are their sons. Calling people fanboys or girls is just a way to put people into easy categories. If its hurts your feelings a little bit I'm sorry, but it's kinda how I see them. I don't think you are necessarily a fanboy, but I know you fall on the positive fan side where you love your veteranosity and that's fine. As for your other points, I don't think Vavra's defense at 2B is that great. Odor could be better even though almost every metric shows him to below average. I do think Odor turns the DP well, probably better than Vavra, but if Vavra is not your guy at 2B, then bring up Martin to be the back up, don't just waste Vavra to be some bat off the bench that he's probably never done. We also have to add in base running where Odor makes a pretty decent amount of outs on the base paths because he's not a great base runner while Vavra is an above average runner who I've never really seen make boneheaded mistakes on the base paths. Not saying he doesn't but I haven't seen it or heard it's an issue with him. You and few others are getting too caught up with your feelings and not thinking about what's best for the team now and in the future. If a replacement level player is the best player we can do at 2B and this point in the season, Elias has failed in his job of continuing to improve the team. If Vavra is not the guy because of his defensive shortcoming, then he should find someone else to replace Odor.

That's fine if they were bringing up Martin. Odor is the 26th man on this team, but Hyde thinks he's a starter. Would you bring up Henderson and say the same thing? Vavra is certainly not at the level of prospect of Henderson, but he is a legitimate major league prospect who plays 2B. When your 2B is clearly the worse player in your starting lineup each night, why would you not use the prospect and see how he does? If you think so little of Vavra that you consider him the 26th man, then either that says a lot about how they view Vavra overall or how much they value veteranosity.

Haha, I was just adding to your post for others to see. We see things the same way here.

There is definitely a fanboy aspect to the guys who think Odor actually helps this team win. If Odor was not jumping up and putting on homer necklaces, they would be calling for his head like the rest of us. Sure, it's two games, but it gives us an idea about how Hyde thinks. If he continues to play Odor I will know that he's not the manager of the future here with all the prospects coming up. We can't have the veteranosity manager managing a young team that will need to integrate rookies onto the team over the next few years. If he won't stop playing an obvious sub replacement level when they have better alternatives that concerns me. Saying all that, I don't even know if Hyde makes out his lineups. For all I know Sid's computer pops out this lineup and somehow Odor has hacked into it and made the program think he's the 2016 version of himself.

Odor has slashed .194/.271/.387/.659 in 70 PAs. I'm sure he's directly responsible for the 14-6 record in the month. lol

I guess my biggest issue is Odor does not belong starting in the major leagues yet here is with a perfect suitable replacement on the roster. I agree two games doesn't mean anything in the big game of things, but what is the purpose of bringing Vavra up and saying he's not going to play CF (his other position) and he's not going to start over a sub replacement level veteran? You ease him in by not starting him against a tough left-hander. But again, my biggest issue is that Odor does not need to be starting and if the team has decided Vavra is good enough to be o the major league team, he's a suitable replacement for Odor.

The team is 39-46 when Odor plays. 10-2 when he doesn't. How good could they be if they weren't running out a below replacement level player?

It's the fan boy and girl thing. They love the guys that jump around and put on homer necklaces and they think wow, this guy is so important to the team winning. I don't think any of that matters. What mattes is putting the best nine guys on the field and you don't bring up a prospect and sit him on the bench when you are starting a well below average major leaguer because he's a good clubhouse guy. I'm enjoying the Orioles winning as much as the next guy, but I look at the bigger picture. Don't bury prospects in favor of veternosity driven players.

This all starts to remind me of Mike Hargrove. He was notorious for doing this. As much as I'm not a fan of robo managers like Cash, I really don't like managers who play veterans who have proven they are not good for a significant time over rookies because they are rookies.

I'm not crushing Hyde, I just think it's worrisome. When managers get too close to their players they start playing their favorite veterans instead of the better player. Now maybe the Orioles have decided that Vavra is just a bench player and then I get it, but I have hard time looking at what Odor has done this year and what Vavra has done in AAA and think why not give him a shot. Odor is the only weak link in the starting lineup right now and they have a potential replacement on the roster.

So you start a worse player so you can have a rookie as a pinch hitter, something he's never really done. Genius!

Not sure what world you live in where the present is better with a below replacement level player playing everyday. If Hyde thinks the team is better playing the veteran who in everyday is below average, then he's not the manager of the future of here for sure because he's playing the invisible veternosity move over the better player because he happens to be a rookie. Odor: rWAR: -0.1 fWAR: 0.0 wOBa: .280 (MLB Avg .315) xwOBa: .268 so he's actually been lucky to be as bad as he's been OAA: -5 Batting/base running combined (fan graphs): -7.6 Yep, definitely the guy a contender should be playing everyday.

Ah, the good 'ol veteranosity move. Sorry, it's dumb. Odor does not need to be playing. He can be just a good rah rah guy on the bench. Odor is literally a below average, below replacement level player who should not be starting anywhere in the major leagues. He'll get a key hit here and there or make a nice turn on a DP, but so will other players who should be playing over him. I don't buy at all. Playing a bad player because the team is winning with said player is not a good move when you have another potentially better player on the roster. But again, my main issue is if you want a bench warmer, bring up Martin.

Wow, you really are hook line and sinker rah rah boy now, aren't you? Please explain how a below replacement level player was really helping us in July? Do you not understand that we can and should improve this team when possible? Do you not understand that Vavra is an actual prospect? I'll be honest, this kind of post belongs on our message board group where fanboys and girls flame anything that doesn't show everything in bright perfect orange lights. Vavra should be playing over Odor or playing everyday in AAA with Martin riding the pine behind Hyde's wonder boy.

If Odor was better then yes, this would make sense. But everyone knows what they a getting with Odor. A good clubhouse guy who is a below replacement level player.

If that's true, then they should have brought up Martin. You don't bring up a legitimate prospect and sit him on the bench in favor of guys who are below replacement level like Odor. This is just like what Hyde did to Stowers. Why bring prospects up if you aren't going to play them? Martin is a the kind of player you bring up to ride the bench, not Vavra, at least not yet. I didn't even like the answer Hyde had when asked about CF for Vavra. He said that Hays and more problematic Mckenna would be ahead of him? Why? Why not take a look at his left-handed bat? The only reason I'm not hammering Hyde is because I'm not sure he makes the lineup cards out.

I really don't know who makes the lineup calls. When asked in the past it was a "group" thing. But i do know any computer program or process that spits out Odor as a better fit at 2B than Vavra is probably flawwed. Odor is a rWAR -0.1 player so even if Vavra is replacement level it will be an upgrade. It's just disappointing because I want to really get behind Hyde but we're starting to see a trend with young players this year.

Hyde definitely favors veterans over rookies. He barely played Stowers starting McKenna over him and now he refuses to bench Odor over Vavra. For all the good things he'd done, it's going to get a little worrisome if he keeps not playing prospects that get called up over players who obviously are not the best player available.

Sure, what could go wrong in BP??

The more I read up on Walters and Young, I don't think the Orioles should break the bank for either. I like Walters more than Young because you can't teach 99 MPH, and Young has too much risk with way too much miss against college pitching. Get Showalter done and if they can pull of Walters, I'd be happy.