Tony-OH

Really gotta wonder what was offered for Fry and Scott. Seems like their value was probably at their highest.

He's got to have something wrong with him because he cant even throw the ball near the plate sometimes. It was 5-5, I came home, saw Fry throw a WP, and then two more pitches not near the plate and I walked out. I can't watch major league pitching that cant throw the ball near the plate. It embarrasing and it's sad and when I came back in, I was not surprised at all to see it 9-5. Fry is the new Scott.

I would think so. He has the repertoire and is built like a starter. I'd certainly give him a look in that role.

You are using absolutes once again. I never said he had a bad system for evaluations. I said this is a situation that brings that system into question, as well as the failure to protect Pop while protecting Mattson. I don't know for sure how Elias makes all his final decisions on his acquisition or the moving of players out of the system, but I do not think the current system has bear many fruits that will contribute to a winning team in the future. I also understand what he's probably trying to do in the near term when it comes to getting high draft picks while his farm system catches up and can start delivering solid major league players and hopefully an impact player or two.

The Orioles keep their prospect injury news like the Russians kept state secrets in the Kremlin. My only thought was that was why Elias would leave him unprotected. I think he left him unprotected because he's too focused on spin rates and four seamers while Pop is a two seam sinker sidearmer who gets ground balls instead of strikeouts. I don't think Pop fit the Elias mold so he didn't protect him. Or, it could just be a case of wanting to keep a guy you acquired (Mattson) over a guy your predecessor acquire (Pop). I don't know, but if you watch both pitch I don know how any evaluator would pick a 26-year old Mattson over a 24-year old Pop.

Mateo seems like the kind of talented guy that you want initially because of the tools, but ultimately leave a team frustrated with his inconsistencies.

You are being silly. I've never once given him any grief over the Kjerstad situation. I'm just pointing out facts. He came in, fired everyone from the player development side and scouting, then got rid of Yaz halfway through spring training and brought in a very flawed Smith Jr. Those are facts, not opinion. If you don't want to give him any blame for losing Yaz or Pop, that is up to you, but in both situation him and his crew (Sig/Blood/Analytics team) had the wrong evaluation. That doesn't they are terrible or that they won't get some things right, but I'm going to call out there failures along with their successes. So far their failures have been more than their success but I'll wait until this offseason to see if he decides to finally put some effort into the major league team. I'm of the opinion that he is losing on purpose to get good draft picks in the early part of this rebuild while trying to evaluate the in house talent as much as possible. He's done this year and found that Stewart, Akin, Kremer have struggled, Hays, H. Harvey, and Santander can't stay healthy, Tanner Scott will always be inconsistent, while Means, Mountcastle and Mullins are keepers. The rest of his pick ups have been to try and find trade value (Iglesias worked out) or guys to take up space and try to look like they are competing.

They were already on the roster. I specifically said players added instead of Pop, not kept on the roster instead of adding Pop. You then claimed there were far superior examples than Mattson. I asked you for them, and you didn't give me one example that met my criteria. My issue is that you have to say things like "far better options" than the guy I listed but you didn't even thoroughly read why I picked Mattson. Perhaps take your time, and use less hyperbole and stop trying to come off like the board know it all. You have a lot of of good thoughts and ideas but you just continue to try and degrade others opinions instead of just sticking to the facts without the hyperbole or denigration of other's ideas or opinions. Saying all that, Valika was a 28 year old coming off a .791 OPs season in 2020 with no clear second baseman, so no, he was not going to be DFa'd nor should have been at that time. Sulser was the pitcher I was surprised they kept but then we found out about the knee injury that affected him last year and in a year where they knew they would need a lot of pitchers it made sense to keep him around. Back to guys added, I would not have added Mattson or Bannon and definitely would have protected Pop had I known there were no reports suggesting he was not healthy. I said that at the time and I still stand by those evaluations.

They should move Cowser up to Delmarva so he can always say he hit .800 at a minor league level! lol Honestly, he clearly has his timing. Everyone has actually done well down there minus Norby who is hitless and made an error.

I have no problems with them getting PAs in the FCL, IF they actually play game there this year. The rainouts have been crazy this year.

Its ok, I have and will always have strong feelings abut Mu$$ina. I also can remember stories his brother used to tell about him back in the day about how much of a selfish ahole he was so that may have always swayed my opinion as well. I'm sure Mu$$ina has grown and matured and I dont hold any ill will feelings towards him as a person, but he's a guy who gave up an opportunity to leave a legacy. Not many players have that opportunity and he gave it up to become another nameless Yankees far behind the Yankees greats. MuSSina never cared about his legacy because a legacy is based upon what others think of you and Mu$$ina never cared about the fans one bit. It was always about himself and was to the very end when he hung around just long enough to win 20 games and retire. I know fans love him because they remember those big games he won and yes, I have found memories of some great starts by him particularly in that Seattle series, but the Oriole fan in me will never forgive him because I truly believe him leaving is what started the Orioles circling of the drain to baseball obscurity. Now don't get me wrong, Angelos' ownership is the primary reason, but I always wonder had Mu$$ina signed that contract that he was offered in the end, the one that offered him the same amount of money to leave, would the Orioles have still sucked? Maybe. But we would have had another Orioles legend and he would have rightfully taken his spot amongst the Orioles greats and had his number retired. Instead he's just a random Yankees pitcher who will never be remember amongst the greats by Yankees fans. Which honestly is probably more fitting for him.

None of us had access to his EVs, bat speed, or any other metrics. No one here had the same information the Orioles had when it came to evaluating him so that's a flawed way of evaluating the move. Somehow the Giants saw something and somehow in a short amount a time he became an impact player. The end results is the only metric to derive the outcome of the move. Elias owned Yaz, he gave him away. Yaz became an impact player. You can continue to make all the excuses for him that you want but at the end of the day, the result is he chose Dwight Smith Jr. over Yaz.

Stowers really has a violent swing. I'm surprised he hits for as high an average as he has, but its not surprising that Rutschman strikes out less. Although Rutschman swings hard, it looks more under control than Stowers who falls over occasionally or becomes off balance when he misses. Stowers reminds me of Colby Rasmus.

No, I don't think this board is full of Elias apologists, just like I don't think we have a ton of Elias haters. Some people though refuse to look at things from all angles and instead always look at things through their biased viewpoint. I call every situation as I see them. We now have almost three years (though COVID season makes it more like two) to evaluate Elias on. Obviously we can't use on the field record of the major league team yet, so we must look at how what he's done to acquire talent that will be productive at the major league record and to start winning ball games soon (starting net year). He's lost two players for nothing (Yaz and Pop) who could have been part of the future and has not acquired anyone through waiver wires, trades or minor league signings that are not deep in the minor leagues and still an unknown quantity. Wells? I like him so maybe. Watkins? Small room for error but Elias wasn't exactly thrilled so much that he tried a bunch of others before him. Urias? Probably better suited to a utility role and is a below average defender. Now his drafting and development and his investment into Latin America are steps in the right direction, but we have to wait until it bears productive major leaguers before announcing that a success. Elias' term as GM is an "incomplete" at this stage. He's like a prospect in AA who has some good tools, but has yet to show it at the upper levels.

No, no..no..no. and no some more. I hope Rutschman comes up and wears #35 and then has his number retired! That would be the best case scenario. Without getting into everything with Mu$$ina, he's a Yankee. Any legacy Mu$$ina ever was about to have with the Orioles was destroyed the moment he became the first Orioles ever to be drafted, developed and starred with the team to sign with the Yankees in his prime. Mu$$ina never wanted the pressure of being a number one pitcher. It's didn't fit his personality and being a 3rd/4th starter on loaded Yankees teams was a lot easier and they paid him well on top of it all. His legacy will be as a very good pitcher who split his time with two organizations, one of which was the Orioles. He belongs in the Orioles HoF because of what he accomplished on the field as an Oriole, but retired numbers are for the absolute greats that not only performed at a HoF level while with the Orioles, but who helped win World Series.

If those players get you excited, then have at it. I've said my piece and have learned long ago to never get into a disagreements with apologists. I will say good things about Elias when he does good things, and I will be critical of him when I think he deserves that as well. As for the players you mentioned, how many will be a significant part of a future winning Orioles team or traded for parts that will?

100% on point. I'm not anti-Elias at all, but the system Elias uses to identify potential upside talent has not yielded much talent at all from waiver claims or major league ready talent. It remains to be seen whether the minor league players he acquired or the players he drafted or signed become good. I

Franco is not very good any more, but I do appreciate that he's a gamer. He's made some really nice plays on occasion at 3B. Saying all that, he probably needs to be DFA'd. He was brought here to try and provide value at the Trading deadline. He did not.

I will say watching him this year, he looks quicker and more comfortable from the right side of the plate, which is strange for a switch hitter.

Like Stowers, he swing so hard that when he does hit the ball, he typically hits it hard. With the upper cut in his swing, when he gets the ball airborne it tends to go far.

Which is a good a reason as any to get him to Delmarva.

No, he should be in AAA.

He was in deep counts on most at bats because he was just throwing too many uncompetitive pitches. He really didn't command anything particularly well but it goes to show you how dominant his stuff can be to AA hitters. The slider wasn't very sharp tonight but the split change had a lot of movement but he didn't throw a ton for strikes but did get some chase WHIFF with the pitch. His fast ball was his dominant pitch, even when it fell off to 93 MPH after around 75 pitches.

He wasn't really struggling with command anymore than he was all game. The walk was very questionable. It's pretty clear he's in a pretty strict pitc count (probably 90) and wasn't going to start a batter at 89 pitches.

He was at 89 pitches.