Tony-OH

My fault, I meant Ramon Urias.

I heard that he threw the ball well at the camp as well, which actually moved him up my list more to this spot. His delivery though is so unorthodox that its hard to see him pick up a changeup from that angle and I'm not sure the two pitch mix is going to be enough to keep him as a starter. Now, saying that, if he uses the cutter as a 3rd pitch off his 4-seamer and curve, then maybe, assuming he can keep his stuff. The other thing is he needs to improve the command of that power curveball. His walk rate was a bit high last year in High-A ball so that will need to improve for him to stick as a starter. I just don't have enough information on him to place him higher honestly, but with a lack of video and stats this year, we have take a lot of these new guys inclusion on the list with a grain of salt.

Clearly I am failing to get my point across. I'm tired. Have any opinion you want. At the end of the day, you have an opinion, I have facts. My facts state that Elias has dumped one player that became an impact player and he has not acquired any. Does that mean he will never acquire any? No. Does it mean he missed something of that the technology may not always have the answers, incomplete. I like a lot of what Elias has done in changing things within the organization, but so far his talent evaluations of players he's brought in have not been very good. Grant it, these guys are waiver claims and few of them will turn into anything, but so far he's found middle/long relievers and utility guys or sub par guys they've run out as starters the last two years. I expect things to improve, but what we don't know yet is whether he will be given a budget to help improve the team in the future. Afterall, if they are really making coaching moves based on salary (I still don't believe this) then you can throw away any chances of the team being competitive soon so he will need to build completely from within. My hope was that Elias had the technological and scouting eye to find unearthed talent in other organizations. Instead, he failed to pick up Yaz's potential and the guys he has selected have not shown they are part of a winning future. Sure, maybe we can give him a pass on Yaz, but he also hired the coaches yet the SF coaches in less then a few weeks found a way to make Yaz an impact player. The man at the top gets credit when things go well, but also must take the blame when they don't.

Who are the #23 and #24 Prospects?

https://www.orioleshangout.com/2020/10/25/20-2020-prospect-kyle-bradish-rhp/

Adam Hall Report

You a few others really are missing my point. I'm done trying to make it. Read what I wrote in other posts.

That fact that he pointed out Anthony Sanders and his race as being the one screwed also made me question it.

Journalism is a lost art nowadays in this day and age of blogging and tweeting.

I prefer Valaika as well. I don't think Wilkerson is a a good major league player, but as I said, he's a decent guy to have in the system. I think Urius will get first shot to stick as the everyday 2B, but Valaika could be in the running for sure.

Elias has brought in different technologies that are supposedly used to help evaluate players as well as help them improve. They used those vests, those devices on the knobs of the bats and Statcast. What I'm saying is that Elias may want to take a look at what they missed with Yaz. Clearly his development or lack thereof was not on Elias' watch, but he brought in these technologies and they apparently did not indicate that Yaz had the potential to do what he's done. I also clearly stated that I never had Yaz on any of my lists so you can take the smart ass "What did you miss?" comment and keep it to yourself because that's disrespectful. I don't have nearly the access that the Orioles have on all of his data (Data was collected on AAA players in 2019 and available to the teams) so the question becomes, why did Yaz show nothing and then with some quick changes with SF coaches he becomes an impact player? If I'm Elias, I want to know the answer to that. I also clearly showed that Elias's record of bringing in similar players to a Yaz has been pretty dismal. When you take the two together, I think it's fair to ask the question what did they miss? If you don't fine, but at the end of the day, Elias gave away an impact player for nothing and has acquired none in two years. those are facts that can't be denied no matter how much you wanna wear orange colored glasses.

Thanks. Makes sense to me. That's why I was skeptical on the first report.

Wilkerson is a good depth guy to have in the system because he has a little speed, can play the outfield and second base decently, and fill in for a few innings at 3B or even SS. Plus he helps the AAA team out because he can fill in so many positions.

I didn't see the rest of the thread. There is no ill intent here. I just saw it was missing and started it back up. If someone can post the part about it being discredited, great. We can have it "on record" here.

https://www.bleachernation.com/cubs/2020/10/24/orioles-gm-mike-elias-reportedly-under-investigation-for-pension-fraud/ Moderator note: We would like to apologize. The entire other thread was mistakenly deleted.

So if I understand your position, Elias bares no responsibility for quickly evaluating and getting rid of Yaz. So how long does Elias need to have a guy in his organization before he bares some responsibility?

Remember when James Franklin was supposed to be the coach in waiting then wasn't? Lord almighty the MD decision makers for sports are awful. BTW, Tagovailoa is awful. He looks scared, unprepared, inaccurate, and has really poor decision making skills. Good Lord, this is the guy who is the best they can find with all the transfers? Nice job there Locksley.

The point I'm trying to make is Elias brought in all these technologies to try and get the advantage. do we just assume Yaz just outperforms his metrics? Perhaps, I don't know. I do know he has outperformed his expected stats at the major league level so far, but the EV has been pretty good. I agree that Yaz did nothing to show what he would go on to do. I never had him on a prospect list even though at times I kinda thought he might be able to be a 4th outfielder, but every time he would come back and just not perform. Who knows, but so the only facts we have so far for Elias evaluating nearly ready talent outside of his organization (I'll include Yaz since he was so new to the org) are not positive for him and his process. Say what you want about Duquette, but Nunez is the kind of waiver claim that has worked out well.

Well the Terps are back but look a lot like the awful team they were last year. What's Locksley's record as ahead coach now? Good Lord. I'm just hoping they can keep this to some semblance of a competitive game. Remember when we thought Friedgen couldn't get them over the hump of just being in bowls every year?

Great post. It really is amazing how quickly some want to dismiss this and not understand that something went wrong here. The Orioles failed to develop Yaz and gave up him for nothing, yet a team like the Giants were able to coach him up and he turned into an impact player. Yaz has mentioned coaching and swing changes they made with him. No one is saying that the Orioles are now awful with development, but with all the technology they have brought in, they failed to realize what Yaz COULD become. That's my only concern here. As you mentioned, this was a 47 win team that had opportunities and at bats to give in the outfield, yet they gave Yaz away and kept a player like DSJ. Regardless of whether some people want to call this a one off or not, what can not be argued is this WAS a failure by the Elias regime. Meanwhile, let's look at the hitters he's brought in for looks off waivers, international signing money or Rule 5: Richie Martin - Utility upside? Can he hit major league pitching? Defense at SS was below par Drew Jackson - Fail, returned defense was below par Rio Ruiz: below average stop gap, defense is avg to slightly below average Hanser Alberto : Stop gap, defense is below par Jack Reinheimer: Fail, defense was below par Dwight Smith Jr..- Below average stop gap, awful defensively Pedro Severino: Stop gap/backup catcher on good team Keon Broxton: His only Orioles career highlight was hitting a bomb of a home run on the first pitch he saw, fail afterwards Jose Rondon: Huh, why? AAAA guy at best. Fail Richard Urena: Huh? Pat Valaika: Bat first - Utility guy who was well below average defensively almost everywhere he played. Ramon Urias: jury is out. Stick might be ok but defensive is questionable Andrew Velazquez: Utility guy, can't hit and SS defense is questionable due to lack of arm strength See any consistency here? It's been two years, but it's certainly time to start questioning the process in which Elias evaluates the players he acquires off waivers. His pitching acquisitions have not yielded much fruit either and while many of the players he's acquired in trades have not played because of COVID, none seem like potential impact prospects. Add in a lack of overall success in signing good minor league free agents who have helped or look like any kind of potential future piece, and he really has not found much success bringing in stop gap guys. Now I know some people are going to look at this and say I'm bashing Elias, I'm not. I'm just saying the results have not been good, yet one of the guys he let go for nothing has flourished. Maybe it was all just a case of a guy needing new voices or scenery, but the thing that can't be denied is we haven't any players come over into this organization and even turn into a potential everyday guy, and forget about an impact guy. Hopefully his drafting, development of current talent, and international scouting will prove to be on point. The early results look good in these departments, but of course the development is hard to judge with no minor league season this year. I still think Elias is doing a lot of good things, but his Yaz whiff and the players he tried instead are not points in his favor for judging nearly ready talent.

You're ridiculous and impossible to have an actual conversation with when it comes to this because you only see the extremes and everything in black and white.

Severino has lapses in concentration and can get lazy behind the plate, but he's not a very bad defensive catcher. He was worth .4 WAR defensively and threw out 31% of base stealers when the leg avg was 26%. Now do I think Severino is not replaceable, no. But he's a decent stop gap until Rutschamn is aready and should be that expensive even in arbitration.

This is flawed logic. There are lots of reasons why 1st or 2nd round talents don't go in those rounds. Sometimes they have a high level of risk that makes them more of a risk and teams go with others less risky. In Baumler and Mayo's case, they were high school seniors that barely played so most teams went college heavy. Also, teams had a strict budget and once they couldn't meet the player's demands, they slipped.

Sure, I understand that. That's why I never tell anyone they are wrong per se. I just would prefer to have guys with upside over guys that have limited ceilings. You've followed my lists for years and know this is a weird year because of having no minor league season and limited spring season for draftees. As for Baumler and Mayo, I typically would have wanted to have seen them a bit against pro competition and gotten some reports on them before putting them on the list, but that's the hand we were dealt this year. I kinda hedged my bets with them by sticking them where I did.

The depth goes out to 25 really. After that it's get a bit sketchy but some still with upside. Honestly, I haven't even considered the new international signees because they are so inexperienced, but several of them could be on the list next year.