Jammer7

I did not see the game he opened. That’s a good sign then. The velo was there in the Spring. Did it have late movement?

Baker looks like he’s got some arm fatigue, maybe. I don’t see the hop on the ball he had.

No worries. Baumann was getting raves at the alt site, and then the elbow. Came back late in 2021, clearly still not right. The velo looked good in the spring, but the command was not there. Still a potential two plus pitch guy in the back end of the pen for me, but not ready yet.

Agreed. Was it a shoulder? I thought is was an elbow strain.

Interesting. Why? I think he’s a reliever going forward, but I thought he would likely be that all along. I’m still not sure he’s healthy.

I don’t disagree with you completely. I will add that Nick was a very good player, remarkably consistent. He did post up every day. With that, he was likely injured much more than we will ever know. These guys regularly play banged up nearly all season. Some have a better ability to do this than others. Veteran leaders are counted on to “post up” as you said. Tape that ankle, get treatment on that sore quad or shoulder, and get out there. Here’s a cortisone shot. It’s a subjective factor. The numbers don’t lie. They have to be interpreted. However, well-trained eyes have to be part of the equation as well. It is fascinating to me when the eyes don’t match the numbers. Projections and expected improvement or growth can be a mirage of sorts, but it is one of the more fun things about baseball for me.

Agreed, and we don’t know who the PTBNL is yet either. The pick obtained is much more valuable than some think.

Absolutely. Look at what happened to Hays and Santander last year with their leg/ankle injuries. The mental state, especially the past few years, is an issue. I will add that preparation, nutrition and fitness are also factors here. I marvel at the consistency of some players. They may not be the “most talented” player at their positions, but you know what you will get from them each year.

Likable guy and all, but no thanks. More concerned about his hair and his movie star girlfriend. His mind has not been on the ball field in a few years. He is nothing like Mateo. When you get cut by the Pirates at his age, it says something.

We should be both. Looking for long term pieces and prospects in return for Mancini, Santander and probably Odor and Chirinos. Teams will be looking hard at Lyles too. Likely to move some of the Rule 5 depth we have to add or lose in the fall. I doubt we add a guy like Soto, but something could happen if things line up. That proposal was ridiculous. Rather sign him as a FA. Going to cost us either way to get him.

So, about Keuchel. I doubt an MLB deal, maybe a minor league deal. No room if we are going to see Lyles, T. Wells, Bradish, G. Rodriguez (any day now) and Zimm make starts. Kremer is coming back as well. Baumann, DL Hall, Reyes and Lowther are other possibles. Eventually, Matt Harvey will be a possibility. Watkins probably goes back down, maybe DFA.

When Mateo ran for his triple, I thought I heard the roadrunner, “meep meep!” as he accelerated around 2B. Man, he is fast.

Let’s have this exact conversation at the end of this season. Seems a bit premature at the moment to me to call Mateo a .600 OPS guy. After his rib injury, he certainly scuffled a bit. He’s shown a bit of a revival the last few games. I think he’s closer to a .680-.700 guy. We’ll see what we have by October. You talk about all of the high picks, sure. Some of his best work is in the following rounds. I don’t think Stowers, Gunnar, Mayo and Westburg were “no brainers.” Those are top 10 prospects he drafted later. After this season, I would suspect John Rhodes, another later pick, will join the top 10 discussion. Adley, Grayson and DL are the biggest reason the farm system is touted around #1. Two holdovers and a gimme pick, that’s fair. Cowser, Kjerstad and Baumler are wildcards at the moment and we could really use considerable progression from all three. Kjerstad should be in affiliated ball soon, and Baumler is already. Cowser is starting to show signs of life, certainly a bumpy start. Whatever adjustments they have made with him seemed to have a steep learning curve. We could all point to this stat or that stat to support our point of view. We can take an honest look at just what Elias is at the end of the year. The good, the bad, and the ugly.

Yeah, the way I look at it, we got a decent former top 100 prospect in Jahmai and saved $5 million for him to pitch one year for the Angels. Jahmai may stick around and get outrighted, we’ll see.

Well, I still think he’ll hit. I doubt he can be a frontline 2B. He doesn’t have the power for an everyday corner OF. It’s unfortunate, but I hope he goes unclaimed and remains in the organization. The chances are good that he stays, unless another org wants to claim and then DFA him themselves.

I was just thinking they might DFA Jones. Out of options this Fall, and he surely would not stick in the Spring coming off TJ. If they put him on the 60 day IL, he would have had to be paid the prorated portion of the $700K MLB minimum. And he really has not impressed enough to stay on the 40 man in 2022.

Wow…

Cool. We are all passionate Orioles fans. We are not on opposite sides. Make your appropriate points as you go. Maybe even give Elias some credit where credit is due. All GM’s have mistakes the fans can tear up, if that is what you wish to focus on. They all think they are the smartest guys in any room, that arrogance is a part of what has made them successful. The BPA thing, well that is subjective in nearly all drafts. If he makes bad picks, time will show us. Most fans don’t really know one player from another. They read the stats in HS or college. They read the write ups from pundits. But remember that the pundits write what scouts and “industry sources” tell them. And they don’t share proprietary information with these guys. Why would they? Really a discussion for another thread. Personally, this is the best front office/organization, top to bottom, the Orioles have had in my lifetime. The Angelos family ownership has been an awful one and deserves the anger and skepticism of the fans. No doubt. But the sons appear to be on the right track, so far. Elias’ plan seems to be on track, as he has done exactly as he said he would. We all want it faster. Yeah…me too.

Obviously, Mike was an immensely popular Oriole. A great pitcher, who left the team and went to a great organization. He made a great deal of money by doing so, and had some of his best years. I doubt he wanted to leave Baltimore, but the Yankees presented a great competitor a great opportunity to compete. I don’t think most knowledgeable fans begrudge him that on a personal level. But why should we retire his number as an Oriole? What is your criteria, and legitimate case that we should? Should it be about fan sentiment, or just simply career numbers? For me, the final straw was not going in the HOF as an Oriole. That commitment is a two-way street.

I think this is a very interesting claim. Four pitches that can be swing and miss…? Yes, please, take a look and see if you can work through some things. And he has all three options, cool. You do understand that a waiver claim is picking through that which is cast aside by other teams, right? No team was willing to trade anything for them. So, it doesn’t generally lead to a high success rate. The Orioles have actually done a better job than most, and certainly being among the first teams with a crack at taking guys for three years helps. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist, but we do have one. lol That said, with Lopez, for instance, they spotted something they liked. Yes, as a starter, it was not good the second or third time through a lineup. They made some changes to try to unlock his potential. He needed the innings to be evaluated. (The guy went through a lot personally as well last season.) When they had given him ample opportunity to become a starter, they judged they had to make him a reliever. They went through a developmental process with him at the big league level as they have done with multiple guys they have claimed. They had to do this to keep him and get to where he is. He is still learning, but at least he is effective now. It doesn’t happen overnight. There is a process. Winning teams do not have the opportunity to bring a guy along like this. You cannot often claim a guy and just plug him in, maybe relievers can most often. These guys had failed to some degree elsewhere, but they were valued prospects to get that far to start with. The Orioles have poured a ton of time at the major league level the past few years into guys they claimed. They have released some after seeing that they cannot get where they want with a guy at the MLB level. They took chances and lost some because they needed the space or thought they were better served playing every day in the minors. They have given opportunities to players that had earned them. If you want to complain about the lack of free agents signed, or trades made, to add veteran pieces to a bad team, I’ll agree it could have been done. I will say that these were not done to let the unproven players, prospects, rule 5 picks and waiver claims to play to be evaluated and see if we can turn some into valuable pieces or trade them. It has been rough to watch, unless you are into player development at all levels. That stuff is valuable, and there are no shortcuts if you do it correctly. Getting players from other organizations is a mixed bag. Each team has their own ways of doing things. Not all are as effective. The Orioles obviously believe they are very good at developing talent. But it takes time. These players are not machines. And now we are beginning to see things turn. If you don’t have an agenda, it sure has seemed like it. I mean, your posts are sometimes solid, but often come off whiny and immature about Elias. That is why many here believe you have an agenda. Maybe you don’t care at all what some of us think. That’s also fine, I guess. But if you do, maybe tone it down some. There are certainly things Elias has done that can be second guessed or complained about. But in nearly every post you take some kind of shot at Elias. That droning noise becomes annoying. And it undermines you here, in my opinion.

I agree, completely. Maybe the younger generation of fans is similar that way as they have not experienced the heated rivalries themselves. The expanded playoffs probably adds to the average fan’s ambivalence. The game itself, is supposed to be for the fans. I mean, from an old guy perspective, the players entertain the fans for a price. If a player chooses to become an outcast with a particular fan base by signing with their most hated rival, he should expect the fans to not support him. Maybe even despise him as a player. I don’t hate the guy, on a personal level. But I am not wanting to look at a statue or even some kind of remembrance that Mussina went to the Yankees and helped them win. I totally support him leaving. The Orioles organization was a complete dumpster fire. I would bet he really struggled with leaving. He seems like a very intelligent loyal down to earth family guy. Perfect for Baltimore, and it’s fans. I sure wish we had Mike and Ben coming in now. Of course, Ben would have spent more than a few weeks in the minors…lol.

I voted No because I think retiring numbers is way overdone. Mike Mussina was a fantastic Orioles pitcher. My favorite Orioles pitcher since Palmer retired. I even played basketball against him in HS. And I will never forgive him for going on to become a Yankee. Leave, fine. But never, ever, put on those pinstripes. And then, he did not go in as an Oriole. Pass.

Yes, I know whose son he is. Rich kids can be spoiled, or whatever. I’m not saying he has issues, not at all. Just saying we don’t know. Elias’ scouts will find out, and it will be part of the decision making process.

As far as I know, you are correct that Jones is #1. The only thing that would be a problem is if Druw has some character issues we don't know about. I've never heard anything like that, but we know that Elias and his staff put a huge emphasis on intangibles and character. I have faith that he and his scouts will take the best player available that they believe they can best develop.

That is me being light. And don’t call me Francis! lol