Moose Milligan

Yep, but that all came out after he was in the HoF.

I don't totally disagree. And the trite thing we hear is "billionaires vs. millionaires." The owners are, largely a faceless entity. I mean, we know who the Angelos family is but I don't know who owns the Kansas City Royals. I can't name the Padres owner. Or the Blue Jays owner. I can tell you the Lerner family owns the Nats but that's because they're in close proximity. What I am trying to say is that the owners, from the perspective of the court of public opinion, seem to get by from facing criticism here because they're not seen every day. They're not easily identifiable to everyone and for the most part they're not on Twitter and not making statements in the media that...well, rub fans the wrong way. Meanwhile, everyone who follows baseball knows who Blake Snell, Bryce Harper and Max Scherzer are. The other thing that the owners have going for them, I believe, is that they're probably not relying on their MLB teams as their only income stream. Many of these people have made money elsewhere which have afforded them the ability to own a sports team. Meanwhile, MLB players...this is really if for them. Some of them will find success in other avenues of life after retirement, some won't. And therefore, they are looking for their best interests and have no shame in saying so. MLB owners don't NEED to own teams to be financially successful, they already were before purchasing their teams. A lot of players need to play the game in order to lead a lifestyle they've become accustomed to. It's unfortunate that the players don't really seem to care about the court of public opinion, that they're whining about things not being fair when there's record unemployment numbers. It's a simple concept, one that they don't seem to grasp. I don't have an issue with players salaries being what they are...I liken it to movie stars and what they make. Baseball is entertainment, other entertainers make a lot of money and baseball players should be no different. But when it comes to the billionaires vs. millionaires...in this case, give me the billionaires. At least they're trying to move the season forward. Had they not made this proposal I get the feeling that the players would have been perfectly happy to kick up their heels and stay home all summer without saying a word. And now that the owners want to have some semblance of a season in a manner that restricts their revenue due to not being able to have fans, concessions, etc, the players are acting like taking less money for less games is a slap in the face and an insult. Which, to people who are out of a job and are struggling to make rent and pay bills...is insulting.

No. He should be. If you're going to put in a guy like Kirby Puckett who's career was cut short then you have to look at Belle. The differences here are that everyone loved Puckett and he had glaucoma. Everyone hated Belle and he had a bad hip. Glaucoma and loss of eyesight in a guy that everyone loves gets sympathy. A bad hip on a guy that everyone hates gets ignored. Puckett: .318/.360/.477 for an .837 OPS, 124 OPS+ 51.1 WAR. 2,304 hits, 207 homers, 1085 RBI in 7,244 at bats. Pretty confident that if he played out his career he'd have gotten 3,000 hits. Also worth mentioning his 6 Gold Gloves. Belle: .295/.369/.564 for a .933 OPS, 144 OPS+ 40.1 WAR. 1,726 hits, 381 homers, 1,239 RBI in 5,853 at bats. Pretty confident that if he played out his career he would have passed 500 homers, maybe approached 600. Belle had 1,391 less at bats and trailed only by 11 WAR. If I'm doing my math correctly, had Belle been able to have an equal number of at bats, he would have slightly exceeded Puckett's value. But Belle was a bad guy, threw baseballs at people, terrorized trick or treaters, was surly and didn't like the press. So the press took joy in letting him drop off the ballot. Don't get me wrong, I understand it and I'm not saying Belle is a shoe-in by any stretch. But I feel like there have been less deserving players who have stayed on the ballot longer. If Belle was an angel, he'd have a different legacy, IMO.

Jeffrey Maier.

Well, Belle is a good pick. John Rocker. Pete Rose (although I love Pete Rose). Dibble. Bonds. Clemens. A-Rod, although he has done a masterful job of remaking himself. Mel Hall. Canseco. Milton Bradley. Doc and Darryl. Dave Kingman. Rogers Hornsby. Kenesaw Mountain Landis, according to some reports, was instrumental in keeping black people out of baseball. I mean, I hated Ortiz, too. He was annoying as hell. But other than playing for Boston, what'd he really do that was so reprehensible? Smashed a dugout phone and took PEDs. Big deal.

Yeah, this isn't correct.

Just goes to show how hard drafting and developing is. But most guys have a deficiency or two. A true 5 tool player is an exceptionally rare thing. Call it a 10 ability player, adding in things you mentioned like agility, quickness, etc, in addition to the 5 tools that scouts look for...it's still rare.

Read this a few days ago. It is TMZ material but she also takes the blame for acting like a brat and reflects on what she's learned.

Admire your positivity but quite frankly I don't think these guys care about really having a season. They care more about the ramifications of what these negotiations mean for the future.

Fully prepared for an announcement that there will be no baseball in 2020.

This team needs talent. Period.

Good news. Keep it up, Elias!

Well now, where's the fun in THAT? Come on Drungo, you gotta love some of the legendary stuff. That said, I will agree that he didn't hit as many as people are lead to believe. But he had to be one of the most intimidating pitchers of the era. I don't think he had any problems throwing inside.

Dunno, why don't you lay out some suggestions and I'll see if there's fun in calling it dumb. ?

Yeah, but...I mean, c'mon. I don't believe that Bob Gibson wasn't a max effort guy all the time. I will buy that other pitchers weren't max effort guys but I believe Bob Gibson wanted to shove every fastball and slider down everyone's throat from the first batter to the last.

Yeah, well, if it's gonna be first week of July as rumored they better get on it. They've got a little over a month to get warmed up and ready to go. If this drags into the first or second week of June, then the players are gonna whine that they don't have enough time to get ready for a season they already don't want to play.

Yes. Hard to argue with that.

Not to hijack this thread further... Angelos did at one time have the drive to want to field a winner. As you noted, he picked up Belle. He spent on other FAs early in his tenure, but the Belle thing made him gun shy. Both of these guys wanted to be the smartest guy in the room when it came to making trades and signing free agents. They both made very poor decisions on hiring general managers and front office people and then proceeded to do what they wanted anyway. In regards to Davey, that sucked...but that team was getting long in the tooth, I've often thought that Davey getting fired was a blessing in disguise for him. I don't think he could have won if he stayed.

Well, there are some differences but that doesn't take away that they've both done a lot of damage to two franchises that were held in high regard for a long time. To me, the fact that Snyder travels with the team vs. Angelos being a recluse doesn't mean much of anything, the results are the same. In regards to the Sean Taylor murder, Snyder is a bit of a jock sniffer. He likes to be buddy-buddy with some of the players. He was that way with RG3, but I don't have to tell you that. He did handle the Sean Taylor situation about as well as anyone could but that doesn't make me think he's any less terrible.

I think I might speak for a lot of OHers here when I say..."c'mon, maaaaaaaaan." I get it, I really do and I don't fault you for that. The players are a spoiled bunch of jerks. And they don't want to lift a finger for anything. But you've got a lot of equity built up in the game. To walk away, to let them spoil the fun and the joy you take in this, I dunno man...it would make me sad. I kinda look at it like Angelos (and Dan Snyder). For years I've told myself that it sucks to be an Orioles fan and a Redskins fan. The two teams I hold dear and have spent countless hours of time with are just mismanaged and poorly run by the worst owners in their respective sports. What are the chances of that? Not to mention the amount of money I've spent on gear...but you can't put a price on time. I've just told myself that I can outlast them. I can outlast Angelos, for sure. Snyder will be harder, but I believe I can. Tony, you were a fan of baseball and involved in the game well before Blake Snell and Bryce Harper and all these other twatwaffles that are voicing their opinions and not wanting to play this year. You'd still be a fan after their careers are over and there's....well, a new set of bratty, spoiled players that don't want to work. But at least these ones will move on eventually.

I know. It's funny how 100 pitches is now the limit when 25 years ago 120 was commonplace. And now we have openers.

I would have expected Davey higher, especially due to what became of Dwight Gooden. Booger sugar played a big part there, but he had a ton of pitches on his arm at a very young age. Mussina in '96 had 16 starts of 110 pitches or more, including 5 with 120+. McDonald had 7 over 120+.

To me it refers to a guy who's just perpetually on the fringe between AAA and the majors. I don't know if a Quad-A guy ever really dominates anywhere.

Those weren't Akin's stats. Those were Asher Wojciechowski's stats from, like, 2014 in AAA. Which bear a striking resemblance to Akin's stats last year. And I'm pretty sure Asher Wojciechowski is a Quad-A pitcher.