Pickles

Ha! Well, I won't rant in two threads, but in the thread about the new scoreboard, I made my feelings known regarding gambling.

It's of course all subjective but for me during the tank there was at least a plan which provided a light at the end of the tunnel. There was no feeling of that for me in 2005 for instance.

To me it's not really about the increase. It's about the total number. If we're saying it's going to take several years of winning to get to 2 million fans than we're in esscence saying that is the ceiling of our potential attendance. That used to be the floor. That's problematic.

I agree with you. I don't expect this team, even a consistently successful team, to draw 3.5 million fans anymore. I'm just speculating on how bad the damage is, and how much winning can correct it. It will correct it some, but not all. I guess I'm just curious to quantify what that "not all" part consists of.

Are you old enough to appreciate the utter hopelessness of the 00s Orioles? If you are then I suggest you have a minority opinion.

That whole first half of 2007 was just an epic kick in the balls. It was the final nail in the coffin of any hope of competing without a long and hard rebuild. I was happy with the hiring Andy MacPhail, as it at least signalled a clear direction.

I think the absolute nadir for me was Chris Ray blowing some save against the NYY in 2007 right before MacPhail was hired.

Well, it's already proven to be a better plan than any of those other plans, as they managed to win 81 games.

Was the tank worse than 14 years of losing? For me it was nowhere near as bad.

I guess that's kind of my point/concern. This team drew over 2 million in 2007 after nine straight losing seasons. They topped 2 million in 2012 after 14 consecutive losing seasons. If they can't get to 2 million this year then the team's fanbase has been permanently reduced in a way that even winning won't solve.

Before I bless this man, I'd need to know if there is any relation to Roger.

Well, we saw the increase last year even in season so we know winning leads to more butts in the seats. If this team is competitive all year- as I predict they will be- and they don't draw 2 million, or close, fans than we might have to wonder if the other effects on attendance besides just winning- issues we are familiar with involving the city, demographics being drawn to baseball, people staying home to watch on TV, etc.- are stronger than we know.

Agreed.

TBH, if it doesn't, I'd fear the long term and non-baseball effects on attendance are stronger than we may be willing to acknowledge.

Ironically, and I know you're kidding, but it's actually old school stuff that dictated this lineup today. Respect and rewarding past performance, etc.

Yeah, IQ tests. The most effective and predictive tool for studying general intelligence. Why would we use them? Clearly, you don't know what you're talking about but you have very strong emotions about the topic which aren't grounded in reality. You must be of the younger generation. If you think sipping some gin at prom is the same as giving 6 year olds amphetimenes and Playboy is the same thing as gang bang videos available at the touch of a finger I can see why you hold the opinions you do.

Gambling, dope, pornography have always been around. They haven't been available and pushed upon young developing minds as they are now. And it's intentional. The average American IQ dropped for the first time in over 100 years. Since IQ tests are only about 100 years old, that essentially means for the first time in history Americans are demonstrably getting stupider. That's not a coincidence.

I'm fairly confident in your confidence.

Their brains are under assault from destructive forces. It's to the point where fewer and fewer of them are even able to choose to pursue it. And it's not just algebra. It's virtually all of the higher mental functions that require concentration and discipline. I teach college kids. The vast majority of whom have never sat and read a novel. They can read, technically, but they can't read effectively, because they simply can't concentrate that long. I know this is dark and off-topic but it's hand in hand with this gambling crap. Now instead of just dope-addled social media drones, they want to introduce gambling into the degeneracy stew. It's gross and offensive.

I understand what you're saying but somebody is going to have to build the bridges and maintain the infastructure. But I am much more concerned with their mental and spiritual well-being. Social media, instant and ubiquitous pornography, surrounded by cultural rot and decay, and now gambling being pushed into every corner of society...... I hate to break it to ya'll, but this don't end well.

As one who works with young adults, I can tell you the consequences are already here. We have 20 year old who can't read a novel (or read cursive for that matter) or do algebra, but they spend hours analyzing minute pick-em NBA prop bets. Their brains are being wired to gamble. Gambling is addictive and the people pushing this- politicians, "business" interests- know that damn well.

I wouldn't love it, but depending on how certain individual players perform, it probably wouldn't change my expectations for the franchise going forward. I wouldn't care about it's relationship to the offseason, as I never expected big acquisitions, now or in the future. If anything, you could argue it would support Elias' approach this offseason, as the team wasn't as close/good as some projected.

After getting eyes on Westburg this spring I am more in favor than ever of him being the OD starter. I expect him to be up soon and I expect him to get significant playing time in the bigs this year. If he doesn't, particularly if Frazier keeps getting run out there if he's not performing well, I'll pick up my pitchfork.

Ha. I shouldn't tempt fate.

Wait until Thursday when the board crashes after Frazier makes an untimely error in the 8th inning to allow the Red Sox to take the lead.