Bemorewins

Just curious - How much of OAK have you watched this year? Blackburn and Sears (the 2 best A’s pitchers who we will see both of in our series) are no easy shakes.

What were you hoping for 17-7? I guess we could have won that finale of the series against the Pirates. I’m sure you know this already but 16-8 is exactly averaging taking 2 out of every 3.

This was an entertaining little discussion. I love it when those 2 talk baseball! Thank you for posting this! However, when discussing best player in the game, I thought it was interesting that neither mentioned Ocuna Jr. He has ALREADY had 2 amazing seasons (including last year) of the kind that we are hoping that Gunnar is headed for this year.

That’s the thing about Gunnar. He only 22! We don’t even know where the ceiling is right now.

I see no dilemma. He’s under team control right now during his best season’s. When he becomes a FA he will be out of his prime. I mean I love Mullins as a player and what he brings. But when we are talking about priorities for extensions, he is nowhere near the top considering you have an MVP caliber 22 year old, an ultra talented top prospect who is 20, and your team leader is 25. Those 3 are the engine that will drive this bus toward postseason glory most probably, not Cedric Mullins. If the Yanks want to give him that kind of contract while we retain 2 out of the 3 if Henderson, Rutschman, and Holliday; then so be it! What I shudder to think about is a prime Henderson or Holliday crushing it for one of our competitors so that we can have a declining CF. Didn’t we just do that the last go around? Where we choose to resign the (predictably) declining player while we let the younger/more talented player leave? Yes, I agree that Bradfield Jr’s development is important. But since Elias/Sig have been here they haven’t struck out on any first round picks. Also, if Bradfield proves to be a bust, they can always draft and/or develop another CF type.

I agree completely. It is a risk. But IMO the potential reward is worth the risk. You can’t make the shots that you are unwilling to take.

Unless we cannot sign Gunnar/Adley/Holliday whatsoever (because they are simply uninterested at any dollar amount), I don’t want to tie any significant dollar amount that could be going to them in future years on a player like Mullins (good not great).

Understood. But even from that perspective, I would still say that Gunnar is worth investing in at that amount. The value to franchise of a true superstar player is worth more than 33 for a decade. IMO the money to be made and the value that is added to the franchise from the winning, increased attendance/merch sales, added revenue from businesses investing in your suits, playoff revenue, etc; is worth the investment. Obviously you have to be careful with giving out these kinds of contracts. But the is literally NOTHING that I can see about Gunnar Henderson that says that he is not worth it. Given I don’t know him personally and do know about any potential things off the field that may be possible red flags. But assuming none of those exists, this is the kind of guy that you lock up! If the O’s/Rubenstein simply want to have a competitive team, you can cycle guys through, trade them at peak value, and continue the cycle of an ongoing rebuild of sorts. However, IMO that does not add value to your franchise in a significant way because history has shown that this kind of approach does not lead to a buzzing/blooming/expanding fanbase (i.e. the Rays, Guardians, etc). But if Rubenstien wants to maximize the value /growth of his investment, you have to have and retain elite talent/superstar players WHILE you win. My contention is that you are dealing with a more informed consumer than ever before in history (due to the internet) AND that same consumer has more entertainment options than ever. You HAVE to give that consumer a compelling reason to engage your product. Yes it requires when but people (especially the non-die hard and specifically younger fans connect by following other people). Institution loyalty is no longer binding enough that it can be relied upon to hold/retain the attention/interest of the average consumer. The movie industry found that out during the pandemic. When people in large part stopped going to theaters. Baseball at the end of the day is an entertainment business. And part of putting on the show is having people that the paying customer wants to see perform.

If that number is the barometer then the answer is yes. Absolutely yes! If the goal is to one build a longer term multiple World Series winning team, then you don’t let elite/irreplaceable talent walk. Look around the game, nobody is really doing that anymore. At least not without retaining at least one franchise player to market/build around. If the other goal is to grow the franchise’s viability/relevance/fanbase/revenues within this market, you have to have superstar m/face of the franchise players that people want to see and corporations want to invest as dollars in.

I don’t know how you are assessing value? Is it to express who is being paid the least for the most productivity? Is it age vs production? Is it who is the best player right now? 5 tool talent? Something else?

Yes. That’s less than 25 million a season on average. Even though the years are a bit long. That’s the going rate for these type of superstar players. Maybe you can go more AAV in exchange for say a 12 year deal? But at age 22, even at 14 years he’s here until he’s what 37/38? In 10 years 25 mill per won’t be the valued at nearly the same dollar amount in terms of “paying an older possibly declining player”. That contract length also ensures that he is an Oriole for life basically. If Rubenstien’s goal is to restore the franchise’s glory instead of simply making it a competitive franchise. You cannot minimize the value of having these type of franchise cornerstone players/homegrown superstars. We basically haven’t had one (and retained) since Ripken. (Yes I know Machado was one but we let him walk and basically the same with Mussina.)

It probably makes the most financial sense to extend Gunnar first and probably sooner rather than later. If he continues in this trajectory he may be headed for the MVP. If that happens then you probably don’t have much chance to extend unless it’s for a 300- 500 million type deal.

I know that you know this but they are not competing with one another. We can appreciate one without trashing the other. Because we will need both of them to be great if this franchise wants to reach its ceiling. Gunnar is on the fast track to his ascent while Holliday is at the bottom/beginning of his climb. They will form the best up the middle duo in the game in time and hopefully it will last for at least a decade.

He is a prime example of why you let them figure it out and not platoon top prospects like some (not saying you) were suggesting.

Is it also one of the posters who is leading the charge to send Holliday down?

Who remembers this time a year ago when people wanted to send him back to AAA?

That may be but I know he is scheduled to pitch Tuesday against us.

The best hitter is already hitter at the top of the order and the second best is hitting number 2.

Just wanted to bump this because this young man is awesome at baseball!

Does that equate to him being a better hitter than Gunnar Henderson? Let me ask it like this: Do you think Cowser will be ahead of Henderson in all of those categories by the All-Star break (let alone season’s end)?

You think Cowser is a better hitter than Rutschman or Henderson? I understand that he has been hot to start the season, but his numbers aren't all that different from Gunnar's and Gunnar hasn't even had a "white hot" period as of yet.

It would probably be better to give Adley a day off when we are facing a righty considering how many LHH that we have. Anyway, Adley is on a roll right now, so I'm not sure you want to take his hot bat out of the lineup.

Urias already is a backup. He only plays against LHP so that they can protect Holliday as he acclimates. Once Holliday gets settled in, Urias won’t be playing much at all.

It’s good to have Mountcastle back in the lineup today. McCann has been getting a lot of run lately. Good thing is he’s been hitting pretty good thus far.

I'm not sure that I understand all of your post. In particular the mentioning of Elias and Adley in comparison to Belichick and Brady. That is an apples to strawberries comparison at best. Both are fruit and red and round, otherwise unalike. Brady's role as QB and BB's role as head coach and GM is far different and much more directly central to success than Elias GM and certainly Adley as a catcher. However, when speaking about Hal Steinbrenner being an impediment to Elias remaining as GM of the Orioles long term, I don't see it. NY is a totally different market than here. You are NEVER going to be given 4 years for a total tear down and all the future building moves for the sake of the present won't fly in NY. Yes, I am sure than other owners like Steinbrenner envy what the O's have amassed. It's why they changed the draft rules. However, some owners know that the path that Elias used to get the Orioles to where they are is not viable in their markets as they know how alienating it would be to their fanbase. This is to say, that if Elias wants to be here, Rubenstein has the pockets that are plenty deep enough to make that happen. It's probably going to be a similar contract to what the Mets are paying Stearns and the Dodgers are paying Friedman.