More Sordid Clemens Rumors....

[crawdad]

If it was a 28 year old multimillionaire woman having sex with a 15 year old boy we would call him lucky.

I'd call that pedophilia. Are you saying most people are OK with pedophiles?

I certainly am not.

[Gurgi]

I dont think this girl is the victim of anything. They are friends to this day. Obviously she had a strong attraction to him that lasted well past the time in question. Who knows if he even knew how old she was. Many, many girls lie about their age to be with older guys.

Juliet was 13 in "Romeo and Juliet". It really comes down to societal norms. In a biological way there is nothing wrong with it.

[SceffBmo]

Statutes of limitations on this I think.

If it was a 28 year old multimillionaire woman having sex with a 15 year old boy we would call him lucky. I think our ideas of why a man doing it with a young girl is worse is the risk of pregnacy issues.

That and we think women are less capable of thinking for themselves.

I was wondering if there was a statute on things like this, because I've seen shows on Courttv where the person is held accountable many years later.

If it were a woman I'd say the same thing I say about the good looking teachers who do this stuff, walk out your frontdoor you'd probably have guys falling at your feet. If you're gonna cheat atleast do it with someone of age, why risk your freedom and chance being labled a perv by doing something stupid like this ? I have a 15 y/o niece and there's a pretty good chance I'd be the one going to jail if some 28 y/o dude were messing with her.

[crawdad]

I dont think this girl is the victim of anything. They are friends to this day. Obviously she had a strong attraction to him that lasted well past the time in question. Who knows if he even knew how old she was. Many, many girls lie about their age to be with older guys.

Juliet was 13 in "Romeo and Juliet". It really comes down to societal norms. In a biological way there is nothing wrong with it.

Ok, problems with this entry:

1) You seem to ignore or are unaware of dependent relationships. I'm fairly certain those boys they found last year who were molested by that dude in Missouri for five or so years were not having a good time even though they were not lock into a house.

2) If an underage girl tells you she is a different age . . . SHE IS STILL AN UNDERAGE GIRL. This means the person is committing pedophilia.

3) True, laws have been based on sociological norms and basic science. Before the 1850s there were few if any age of consent laws. This was changed to fit more "proper" age class designation based on religion and moral codes. However, we have been perfecting this thing called science. The human brain cannot give intellectual consent until roughly 17 years of age. Emotional consent is even higher at about 25 years of age.

So, yeah, based on all we know, condoning a 28 year old having sex with a 15 year old is condoning pedophilia.

[Mad Mark]

Eh, I think it predates this country with respect to that. From a US history standpoint . . . it was religious. You need to go back before that for that to be a deciding factor.

I don't have the sources at my fingertips, but IIRC, there were issues with this in Colonial America. The Founding Fathers (or at least some of them) were concerned with the anti-democratic aspects of polygamy.

I dont think this girl is the victim of anything. They are friends to this day. Obviously she had a strong attraction to him that lasted well past the time in question. Who knows if he even knew how old she was. Many, many girls lie about their age to be with older guys.

Juliet was 13 in "Romeo and Juliet". It really comes down to societal norms. In a biological way there is nothing wrong with it.

I was wondering if there was a statute on things like this, because I've seen shows on Courttv where the person is held accountable many years later.

If it were a woman I'd say the same thing I say about the good looking teachers who do this stuff, walk out your frontdoor you'd probably have guys falling at your feet. If you're gonna cheat atleast do it with someone of age, why risk your freedom and chance being labled a perv by doing something stupid like this ? I have a 15 y/o niece and there's a pretty good chance I'd be the one going to jail if some 28 y/o dude were messing with her.

As usual, we're like the bind guys and the elephant. We don't have all (or likely even much) of the relevant information. She could very well have pulled a reverse Tejada, and told Clemens she was 18 when they first met. Or, maybe some of what we're hearing is the truth. I don't know. I wasn't there.

[crawdad]

I don't have the sources at my fingertips, but IIRC, there were issues with this in Colonial America. The Founding Fathers (or at least some of them) were concerned with the anti-democratic aspects of polygamy.

You could very well be correct.

[CrimsonTribe]

Ok, problems with this entry:

1) You seem to ignore or are unaware of dependent relationships. I'm fairly certain those boys they found last year who were molested by that dude in Missouri for five or so years were not having a good time even though they were not lock into a house.

2) If an underage girl tells you she is a different age . . . SHE IS STILL AN UNDERAGE GIRL. This means the person is committing pedophilia.

3) True, laws have been based on sociological norms and basic science. Before the 1850s there were few if any age of consent laws. This was changed to fit more "proper" age class designation based on religion and moral codes. However, we have been perfecting this thing called science. The human brain cannot give intellectual consent until roughly 17 years of age. Emotional consent is even higher at about 25 years of age.

So, yeah, based on all we know, condoning a 28 year old having sex with a 15 year old is condoning pedophilia.

Just a quick note. You can't commit pedophilia as it's a mental disorder. You can commit statutory rape though.

[Gurgi]

3) True, laws have been based on sociological norms and basic science. Before the 1850s there were few if any age of consent laws. This was changed to fit more "proper" age class designation based on religion and moral codes. However, we have been perfecting this thing called science. The human brain cannot give intellectual consent until roughly 17 years of age.

The human brain can't give consent until 17? Really. I was 15 and I was quite capable of consenting. How many of you "gave consent" before 17?

What this is really about is "poaching". We dont want older guys "poaching all the women". They only prosecute the teachers to make a name for the DA and the fact they must prosecute the women in order not look hypocritical. But the women usually get shorter sentences because most people look upon it as a fantasy coming true for the guys.

Then why is it funny and cool for the boys and a horror for the girls? "Poaching", pregnacy and the idea women cant make up their own silly little heads. Ask a feminist.

[crawdad]

The human brain can't give consent until 17? Really. I was 15 and I was quite capable of consenting. How many of you "gave consent" before 17.

What this is really about is "poaching". We dont want older guys "poaching all the women". They only prosecute the teachers to make a name for the DA and the fact they must prosecute the women in order not look hypocritical. But the women usually get shorter sentences because most people look upon it as a fantasy coming true for the guys.

Then why is it funny and cool for the boys and a horror for the girls? "Poaching", pregnacy and the idea women cant make up their own silly little heads. Ask a feminist.

I'm sure 7 year olds think they know when they should go to bed too. You were most likely incapable of intellectual consent at 15.

It would be about poaching if this is a pedophilic world, which you seem to think it is.

It is not funny or cool for anyone. Boys are just as traumatized by these relationships as girls are. You need to get more up to date on these things. Your viewpoint would be up to date in the 1970s.

[Mackus]

The human brain can't give consent until 17? Really. I was 15 and I was quite capable of consenting. How many of you "gave consent" before 17?

What this is really about is "poaching". We dont want older guys "poaching all the women". They only prosecute the teachers to make a name for the DA and the fact they must prosecute the women in order not look hypocritical. But the women usually get shorter sentences because most people look upon it as a fantasy coming true for the guys.

Then why is it funny and cool for the boys and a horror for the girls? "Poaching", pregnacy and the idea women cant make up their own silly little heads. Ask a feminist.

This is utter nonsense.

Do you have a teenage daughter? Do you want her nailing a 30 y/o?

Would you want your teenage son nailing a 30 y/o?

To me anything more than a few years or so seems creepy until you are into your late 20's or so.

[crawdad]

Just a quick note. You can't commit pedophilia as it's a mental disorder. You can commit statutory rape though.

Correct. Mental disorders are not illegal. Acting on them is.

[SceffBmo]

Everytime someone get's caught breaking the law their lawyer tries to claim some kind of mental disorder caused it. IMO, that's just a copout so people don't have to accept responsubility for their actions.

[crawdad]

Everytime someone get's caught breaking the law their lawyer trys to claim some kind of mental disorder caused it. IMO, that's just a copout so people don't have to accept responsubility for their actions.

A mental disorder is not a free pass to do things. It is merely a reason why some people are more inclined to do certain things. Pedophilia is not made up to make perpetrators feel better about themselves.

[Gurgi]

This whole area of the law is fraught with hysteria. Each state sets its own standards some states have 14 as the age of consent. In a biological sense women are attracted to older, successful males. Males are attracted to younger, healthy women.

Why do you think societies around the world used to marry their daughters off at a young age? Because the desire to have sex is natural and very, very strong.

Many of our greatgrand parents were married at the ages we are talking about. How is being married make one act a crime and another not?

What Clemens did might be distasteful but I cant imagine running around calling him a Pedophile over it.

[crawdad]

This whole area of the law is fraught with hysteria. Each state sets its own standards some states have 14 as the age of consent. In a biological sense women are attracted to older, successful males. Males are attracted to younger, healthy women.

Why do you think societies around the world used to marry their daughters off at a young age? Because the desire to have sex is natural and very, very strong.

Many of our greatgrand parents were married at the ages we are talking about. How is being married make one act a crime and another not?

What Clemens did might be distasteful but I cant imagine running around calling him a Pedophile over it.

Sex is a normal and healthy thing. A 28 year old having sex with a 15 year old is wrong because she cannot give consent as defined by science, not culture or custom. A minor cannot give intellectual consent to a 28 year old man. Whether you are a future HOF pitcher, a cult, a foreign culture, or lived back in 1650 . . . consent cannot be truly given.

Clemens, if he had sex with a 15 year old when he was 28, committed a pedophilic act. It does not exactly make him a pedophile per se. Also, rape is not distasteful and that is what it is. A 28 year old having sex with a 15 year is rape. This isnt a cultural thing. This is how the brain develops.