Tony-OH

If that does happen, I think the Mets will be the team that ends up with him. Someone is going to give him so big dollars because of his potential. the only chance the Orioles have is to trade for him and get the Dodgers to pay for as much of his contract as possible.

The only thing I can think of when they say that is with the draft picks of Haskins and Beavers. I'm assuming when they say "visual hit tool evaluation" they are talking about not being worried about hitters having those really pretty swings. If they go into more detail let me know.

Hey, I just got a drone for Christmas! lol

Now you are being ridiculous. Yes, if people will walk away from being a fan of the Orioles over them signing a player, they were either never a very big fan to start off with, or are the kind of person that can find outrage in everything. I've been about as even keeled as I can be in this conversation and so have most people from what I've seen. I've really only see one person ready to melt down over any different take on this situation and that's you. Maybe you should just ignore this thread because when you start getting up and arms over the word fragile, then this board might not be the best fit for you. See, here we don't play those games. If I feel like we have ourselves a problem with someone who can't play well with others, I will remove said problem. I don't even have a strong opinion on Bauer one way or the other, but I do have a very strong opinion on people I sense are going to be problems, and finding outrage over the word fragile, when it was being placed in the most generic of sense and not even directed at anyone on this board, is concerning to me. I suggest taking a break for a bit or just ignore this thread since it's upsetting you.

Personally, I think this is hyperbole. Are there some very fragile fans out there that would stop being a fan of the Orioles because of Bauer, perhaps, but I doubt its in any numbers that would matter. At the end of day, 99% of the fan base just wants the team to win. Now all things being equal, I agree with you that any headache is not worth it if we can find the same quality without any headaches.

I'm sure like anyone, there are people that like him, and people that don't. I don't know him so I'm not making any judgements on the guy. All I know is if the money is right, and Hyde doesn't think he'll upset the clubhouse, I'd be fine with him in the rotation.

I'm not talking about his sexual preferences, I'm talking about him as a person overall. Everyone can mature, particularly after traumatic events.

These are the points I would be concerned about if the Orioles acquired Bauer. My thoughts, most fans have no idea who Bauer is or what he was suspended for, so I don't there would be anything but very small loud minority who would be upset. As for the clubhouse, someone posted the video of many of Bauer's previous teammates saying how much he was misunderstood and how much they enjoyed him as a teammate. If that's true, then I don't see an issue. Also, maybe Bauer has matured after this situation?

That's how I would have them.

The lack of power is a problem, especially for a first baseman. He's slow, has a bad arm, and is really a bit like Vavra without the ability to play 2B at all. OBP is a too skill that's hard to translate to the majors without some power because major league pitchers will eventually just challenge those kinds of hitters since they won't hurt them much. We've seen that time and time again, and unless a player brings plus defensive skills at a key skill position, speed, or some other factor, they really end up AAAA kind of guys. Just judging by his baseball savant metrics as well as his lack of success in the majors, I don't think he would be a guy that would much of an upgrade to anything. Plus, from an offensive standpoint, there are no more low hanging fruit players to take off the 40-man roster.

I just wanted to take the time to wish you and your family the Merriest of Christmases, The Happiest of Hannukkahs, or the Happiest of Holidays to all of you. Thank you all for being part of our Hangout family and for everything you bring to this community. Like with any family, we may "fight" at times (Thanks Frazier ), but it should never be personal. We dust ourselves off, and come back to the next thread ready to agree with the very person you may have disagreed with in the other thread! In the end, each and every one of you makes the Hangout what it is, and that's the best online community to discuss the Orioles. Hope you all enjoy your holidays with your friends and family and here's to the Orioles having a great season next year!!!

Bradish is really a nice development story that we have not seen in the organization in the past. Watching him go from a straight-fastball, curveball guy to a cutter, plus slider and solid change, with a curveball guy is quite the feather in the organization and his cap. If he continues to throw the ball like he did in the second half, he's a #3 starter on a good team so I'm not really ready to move him unless in the perfect deal. I love Burnes obviously, but with only two years of him, I think he's the kinda move you make when you are one player away from being a legitimate World Series contender, I'm not sure this team is ready for that yet.

BTW, I do expect Frazier to bounce back "somewhat". I doubt he's worse than he was last year offensively, but I still don't thin he was worth the $8 million. Peerhaps with the bigger left field they feel his low EV oppo hits will have more room to fall, though Seattle is a pretty big park. One of the keys to the Frazier signing is that Elias has now told the world and his prospects that he values defense highly, particularly on the dirt. I think this makes Westburg, Norby and Vavra trade bait for him unless he views Westburg eventually as a 1B. This may have been why we heard that Norby said he thinks he will be traded this offseason.

Yikes how is he an upgrade to anything? He's a 5-11 slap-hitting, oppo-hitting, first baseman without power, without a big time OBP skill, who has really poor expected stats. I'd say he's a hard pass for me, which of course means Elias will probably grab him! lol

I'd really like to stay away from Bradish at this point after the changes he made in the second half. I definitely would move Cowser, Westburg and Povich for him, but would probably try and see if they would take some else besides Bradish. The fact is you only have two years of Burnes so giving away two low cost potential starters plus Cowser and Westburg just seems like an overpay on a team that I think is low end playoff contender currently.

I think I answered your question in the post before this one. Your right, Fabian is the only guy I currently see who legitimately can play a plus defensive CF in the system right now.

He's certainly ahs the foot speed for sure. I didn't go into it, but yes, you don't move a guy that's good on the dirt unless you have better people. Players always have more value on the if they can play a plus left side of the infield vs the outfield. This is why I don't see the Orioles in a hurry to move Mullins. They really don't have any proper replacements in the upper portion of the minors, though Cowser can play there for now (He would be average at best). Finding good defense up the middle is not that easy to find, and the Orioles have a strength there right now with Adley, Mateo/Gunnar, Mullins up the middle defensively. With the addition of Frazier, Elias is telling people, including his prospects that he values defense heavily. This gives Jud Fabian a leg up on his competition because of defense in CF. If he hits at all they will aggressively move up the ladder next year.

Of the current middle infielders, Vavra has the most experience out there making 30 starts. Typically you want plus speed to consider moving an infielder to center field. Holliday right now would have that, but there are not a lot of other candidates.

You missed the point of my question. This has nothing to do whether or not you think Frazier will reach 2 WAR or not, it was to ask the question if he did reach 2 WAR, but prospects like Westburg and/or Ortiz were performing that well in AAA indicating that may be worth as much or even more than Frazier, would you still be ok with the deal? Just a simple question.

Definitely not great to hear he's still going to be limited going into the season. Hopefully it won't limit him too much, but I would have been happier to hear that he's been throwing and that he will be full go in the spring. Sounds to me like they will start him back up and if no set backs, then he will pitch competitively by May ish.

CAn I turn this around a bit? What if Frazier does rebound and becomes a 2 WAR player, but Westburg and Ortiz OPS .850+ at AAA while waiting? Is it still a good deal if Westburg or Ortiz are trapped in AAA?

Just to be clear, they weren't in order of who should go first, just the four names that I thought are now on the bubble if more players are added. I really haven't done side by side comparisons.

I think Zimmermann's ability to provide starting pitching depth, and the fact he battled some injuries will keep him around longer than the other guys.

Too Tall, I didn't say everyone who voted that way was uninformed, but you proved my point in that you say you are for this based on wanting him to be good, not because the value of the deal or stats that say it's a good signing. While you and everyone else are certainly welcome and to mix it up, we go into very deep detail using all the metrics available to us. Not everyone has the time or desire to get into that detail, and I respect that, but if you seriously are just voting yes because you hope he does well (which 99% of us do), then you kind of prove my point towards the voters that are now voting yes. I think some of you need to stop saying I'm name calling when I never called you personally anything. You labelled yourself a fanboy and uniformed, not me. Now I appreciate your support and everyone else, and we're happy to have all opinions, but the Hangout has always been the big leagues of message boards when it comes to discussion. This has never been the rah-rah never say anything bad about our beloved Orioles site. So if you say you agree with the folks who like the Frazier signing because you think he'll bounce back, great, but if you vote that way just because you want to like the player or because you just think any move Elias makes is right until proven wrong, well, then you have to take whatever "label" you think fits. At the same time, unless I called you an uniformed fanboy personally, then stop saying I'm calling you names. You are the one taking on those labels, not me giving them to you.

Diaz has 343 major league plate appearances to show he can't hit major league pitching. His 5% sprint speed and 1% arm strength say he needs to stick at 1B unless you want worse than Mancini like outfield work. His EVs are average and his MAX EVs are ok, but not amazing. He's the kind of guy you can kick the tires on but if you need room, like the Orioles did, he's a guy you can DFA. Now, the most interesting part in all of this is Diaz is the last position player tat I would shrug my shoulders if we lose. With him and Nevin gone, the guys on the bubble would now be pitchers in Krehbiel, Politi, Cano or Vallimont.