Tony-OH

I really don' know why you wasted your time writing that. I know, they know, everyone knows your opinion on all of this. There are many kinds of fans. Some fans will always, and I mean always see the rosy, orange and black version of everything that happens and that's ok. My views are very clear as well, but unlike yours, mine is backed with facts and results. At the end of the day, you will always fan your way and I and others will fan in our way. My opinions are not based on my fandom or personal issues with a player, coach, or GM. They are based on my analysis of the situation by taking my heart out of situation, just like if I was asked to analyze another team. I do the same when I scout and analyze minor league players. This is why I grate on some types of fans because they think every prospect will hit their 90 percentile while I try and be more reasonable. It's all alright though because if we only had one way to look at things it would get boring around here, but always remember, your take is based on being a fan and mine is based on statistical analysis based on previous results, age, health and other pieces that are brought into the equation. As fans, we all hope for bounce backs and for players to all take steps forward, but the reality of the situation is the more things that have to happen to be successful, the less chance of it actually happening.

Man, this is not the thread, but Gulliver was such an interesting player that was undervalued back in the 70's and 80's when OBP was not valued as much as it is now.

I doubt anyone will argue with this take.

That's kind my thoughts on the situation. I agree the lawsuit has little merit and I imagine once everyone calms down they will work it all out. I also being they won't sell until Peter Angelos passes.

I always find it interesting that those of us who question his moves will have to "eat crow" when he's right yet you guys don't pat us on the back when moves like Odor or Aguilar fail. I also don't see you guys eating crow when his moves backfire. At the end of the day, I can see what Elias is doing by marginally improving areas and hoping the young players, starting pitchers and bullpen take a step forward. That doesn't mean some of us can't be disappointed when those are the moves vs bringing an impact starter and MOO, two things they needed to legitimately be a contender going into the season. Now, could the Orioles be better than they were if everything works out perfect? Sure. The young players take steps forward and don't have those sophomore jinxes many players have, Kremer is for real, Bradish's last two months is who he really is at the major league level, Rodriguez stays healthy and is an impact starter right off, Frazier bounces back, Gibson can take a step forward with Holt and the fences, McCann stays healthy and bounces back, Givens is healthy and ready to bounceback a bit, Mountcastle and Hays bounceback, Santander stays healthy and returns to his level production, and Stowers is given everyday PAs and produces like he did in AAA. I mean, if that all happens then sure, the Orioles absolutely will be a playoff team and will at least be a contender. But that's a lot of things that have to bounce right for the Orioles.

I'm surprised to hear you say that. I men, you're the lawyer around these parts, but I would think it would be tough to sell a team where there's a legal dispute over ownership.

Well, I guess the fact I have no idea who he is proves your point!

The fact that are actually holding a presser for a pickup like McCann really says more than anything.

As of right now, Stowers has everyday PAs available between corner outfield and DH unless the Orioles keep Diaz on the roster or acquire another left-handed bat that fits in that DH spot in addition to 1B or corner outfield. I'm not convinced though that they feel Stowers is an everyday guy with the way they treated him last year when they promoted him. It was an absolute slap to his face that they would go out and acquire a washed up right-handed DH to take some PAs away from him last year. Then they talk about needing to add a left-handed bat all off season (which I do agree with as long as it's a legitimate MOO bat that probably fits well at 1B) while picking up 26th man left-handed bat options in Diaz and O'Hearn. So in one way, I can see why people think the Orioles are not on Stowers as much as some us may be, but sayin that, I do think as of now he has everyday PAs available going into 2023.

It appears your issue is with him saying " last hope of a legitimately improved roster for 2023" and not mentioning the improvement of the young players or the potential addition of prospects. While I understand where you are coming from, I don't necessarily believe that what Connolly was going for with that comment. Like many of us on here, we don't believe Elias has legitimately improved the roster for 2023 with his additions of Frazier, Gibson, McCann, Givens and the random waiver wire types he's been adding and subtracting. Now, I realize you and some others don't agree with that, and that's fine as it's worthy conversation, but I think what Connolly was going for was outside addition that were going to legitimately improve the roster for 2023. Also, I'd like to say it's tough getting information now with the Elias run organization. In the past, many of us including Connolly had many source, but most of them have tried up and the newer folks are young or younger people who are less willing to talk in any kind of meaningful way. Now, as I was cut off from the press box for the first time in 20+ years, I can't tell you how often Connolly was there last year and I don't know what "sources" if any Connolly has within the organization, but I'm sure he does still have outside organization sources as many of us still do as well. Lastly, unless he's "breaking" news from sources, he's really not writing for the Hangout crowd but more for the casual Orioles fan. His pieces was full of information about the off season and I think that's what he was going for. It's kinda like when I go on the radio. I doubt there is much I'm going to say on there that I haven't already said on here. You guys are incredibly informed because this place is full of super informed knowledgeable fans that crowd source information meaning we rarely miss information about the Orioles. That's honestly pretty powerful and why many in the warehouse used to read the Hangout.

It's not the movement, it's the location. He gets some real good movement at times, but go look at pitch locations on baseball savant and take a look at hits allowed for sinkers. Way too many in the upper portion of the zone.

I went and took a look at his stuff and stats and I kinda like him as starting pitching depth. The curveball is a real nice swing and miss pitch and the change can be good as well. He makes way too many mistakes with the sinker and doesn't throw hard enough to get away with those mistakes. He might want to ditch that pitch and be more of a cutter, 4-seam, curveball, change guy. There is no doubt I'd take him over Gillaspie, Cano, Krehbiel and Politi on the 40-man.

Nah, I think the earth is more of a square!

You're welcome to believe anything you like. Afterall, there are people who think the Earth is flat and we never landed on the moon.

At this point, who knows? He won't be the first bad player to make the Orioles opening day roster. I thought we were past this in the rebuild, yet here we are discussing O'Hearn and Diaz and before that Bemboom and the cast AAAA catchers the Orioles were fiddling around with off the waiver wire. Oh, mixed in we get an $8 million a year second baseman who is two years older than the guy we got rid of and was worth about .8 WAR (basically the same for both) more than the guy who most agree was terrible last year. We replaced Lyles with Gibson (even), and Chirinos with McCann (upgrade if healthy). Best move has been to add Givens, but he's not the Givens we knew from 2019, so really we're talking 6t/7th inning Givens now. So yeah, O'Hearn very well may be the new Nevin, only left-handed and stuck on 1B.

Let's remember, this is an organization that started Kelvin Gutierrez at 3B on opening day last year and had a bench of Odor (2b), Chris Owings (UTL), McKenna (OF) and Bemboom (C) on the opening day roster. They gave Nevin (184) more PAs than McKenna, Vavra, Henderson and Stowers (yes I know most of those were when Urias went on the IL) and yes, decided when they needed help against left-handers, benched Stowers (who has torn up LHP in the minors despite being left-handed) for a washed up 32-year old who was just released by the Marlins because he couldn't hit right or left handers. But remember, Elias has a master plan that we can't understand and has information we don't, so we should always just defend his choices. So no, being good is apparently not something a player needs to be to be signed and played by the Orioles.

"Per the 2022-26 collective bargaining agreement, arbitration-eligible players who settle with their teams on a salary for the subsequent season without going to a hearing will be eligible to receive full season termination pay, even if they are released prior to the start of the season (this rule will go into effect after the 2022 season). Previously, the salary for such players only became guaranteed if the player was on the Major League roster or injured list when the regular season began. Arbitration players who were cut before then would be owed either 30 or 45 days' worth of termination pay, depending on the point in Spring Training the player was released." So the way I read this, the Orioles are on the hook for all $1.4 million of O'Hearns salary if he passes through waivers which could very well mean i was wrong, the Orioles very well be paying a AAA 1B, $1.4 million this year.

But some have said that Elias is smart and we're dumb so it must all be some master plan that we're too stupid to understand. So all those years of being lawyer and all the years of being a smart knowledgeable baseball fan be damned, Elias must have some plan that is so intelligent, so smarts, that no mere regular baseball fan like yourself could possible ever hope to understand. To be honest, the more this offseason goes, the less impressed I am with Elias and who he surrounds himself with when it comes to these roster manipulation moves. Just seems like so much wasted energy for what?

The Orioles seems to value the pitcher's splits more than the hitter's splits in making lineups.

C'mon now, where are you going find a 32-year old catcher who slashed .228/.292/.350/.642 in AAA last year and has slashed .160/.231/.265/.496 in 201 major league PAs in March? Most of them have retired. Now you might get 3 or 4 younger and better catchers out of that spring training tree, but not three Bembooms.

Ah yes, I now see the brilliance of paying over minimum for bad players as backups. My bad.

I will say this, no team has been more aggressive in the backup AAA catcher and first baseman market! The Orioles have been beating all these "dumb" teams to these studs!

Who is mad? Good lord. You do realize you can think moves are dumb, not necessary, not good, whatever, and not be mad right? It's not good roster manipulation if they took on a $1.4 million guy to be the AAA 1B. It's actually terrible roster and organizational manipulation but let's not let facts get in the way. And IF 1B is such a weakness, maybe they should better backup options then guys who have failed miserably at the major league level already? Saying that, I like Diaz more than O'Hearn as hopefully the AAA first baseman.

Did we ever get confirmation that the cash considerations was "and" not "for"? thought it said for, which suggests the Orioles gave KC money. Now it could have been for a roll of quarters to play Galaga! Of course this brings me too, why in the world would KC offer him arbitration in the first place then DFA him after the Rule 5 draft? Talk about weird.