Tony-OH

I need to see him put a whole season together and not have his annual shoulder issues and second half drop off.

Well, you are certainly allowed your opinion, but I don't understand how anyone thinks going to arbitration with your two home grown players over a combined $1.1 million when you have the smallest payroll in baseball is not embarrassing for the club. Do I think Mancini is worth $8 million, no, but I didn't think he was worth the Orioles offer either. But at the end of the day, it's chump change to the Orioles and trying to nickel and dime their home grown players sends a bad message to all. I wonder if the team will cut back to one ply toilet paper in the lockram. It's probably a few bucks cheaper.

Via Roch For the Orioles Cedric Mullins CF Ryan Mountcastle 1B Trey Mancini DH Anthony Santander RF Austin Hays LF Ramón Urías 2B Jorge Mateo SS Kelvin Gutiérrez 3B Beau Taylor C Bruce Zimmermann LHP Relievers behind Zimmermann include Zac Lowther, Cole Sulser, Travis Lakins Sr., Bryan Baker and Conner Greene. For the Red Sox Kiké Hernández CF Jarren Duran LF Kevin Plawecki C Travis Shaw DH Rob Refsnyder RF Roberto Ramos 1B Jonathan Araúz SS Ryan Fitzgerald 2B Alex Binelas 3B Nick Pivetta RHP MASN and Orioles radio are broadcasting tonight’s game.

You are missing the point of this entire thread. Going to arbitration with two of your better players over $1.1 million when you have the lowest payroll in baseball is embarrassing and gives more awful optics across baseball and their fans. Sure, arbitration happens all across baseball and the Orioles typically are very good at judging the market, but it should not be too hard to make agreements when $1.1 million is involved. It makes the Orioles look bad and it should.

I was actually very impressed with the stuff though I really wish he had a change, but the cutter can be affective on lefties. Everything is hard except for the curve and he seems to be using that as a 4th pitch right now (same as he was his last few starts last season). I want to see how it plays through five innings, but right now, I think if he can stretch out and keep the stuff he's got a real good chance of starting the year in the rotation. I still have concerns about a lack of slow secondary that he can consistent use to keep batters off balance. If everything is 89-97, batters can start to key up on that. He also gave up some loud contact despite having a decent WHIFF on ptches.

Guys, let's talk about Stowers in his 2022 thread not his prospect thread from last year. Thanks.

Means did not get a large bonus and been worth much more. I think they would have gotten him at $3 million but honestly, give him the damn $3.1 million. Mancini really should have been non-tendered but due to who he is and his status, he got a contract. I'm fairly certain they could and should have made an agreement with Mancini. Either way, the Orioles look way cheap battling to what amounts chump change in MLB. $8 million is not going to be used to extend a young player anyways.

I call them as I see them and while I support Elias and how he's rebuilding this franchise so far, the fact that the Orioles are going to Arbitration with their homegrown top starter (Means) and All-star (Mancini) over a combined $1.1 million difference is embarrasing. If the number are right, Means wants $3.1 and the Orioles offered $2.7. Really, a $400 K difference for a guy who threw a no-hitter last year? As for Mancini, it's a little more tricky because honestly, he's more valuable to the Orioles because of who he is rather than what he brings to the lineup at this point. Saying that, there's what, a 700K difference? The Orioles could not meet him halfway on that? For a team with the lowest payroll in baseball, it's embarrassing to be going to arbitration with your two All-star over $1.1 million. This is BS. Sometimes it's not always about winning and getting guys for as cheap as you can. I really hope both players win their cases because it's ridiculous that the Orioles could not get this done without arbitration.

I would not have been upset had the Orioles went in that direction this year i guess, but does that mean you don't give these innings to the T.Wells, Lowther, Zimmerman, Bradish now? I want to see what these guys do at the major league level. If that means we win a few less games than we would with Davies/Erod I'm ok with this THIS year. Next year we'll know what we have in them and we can then decide what starting pitching needs to be acquired. 2023 is the year we should be contenders. 2022 is a transition year. We are no longer in the 2021 play and pitch AAAA guys or sign washed up Matt Harvey's and hope they eat innings.

I'm not focused on the Astros, I'm focused on where we are as an organization. Are you telling me you don't think we have a foundation of good players? I disagree. By the end of the year, our lineup could look like this: 1B - Mountcastle 2B - Urias/Mateo SS - Mateo/Urias/Ortiz 3B - Westburg LF - Hays CF - Mullins Rf - Stowers C- Rutschman Our Rotation could be: 1. Means 2. Rodriguez 3. Hall 4. Bradish 5. Lyles/T. Wells Our bullpen could be: 1. Lopez (97-99 MPH) 2. Bautista (97-100 MPH) 3. Tate (96-98 MPH) 4. Scott (96-99 MPH) - LHP 5. Perez (95-97 MPH) - LHP 6. Baumann (96-98 MPH) Now all of these guys may not work out, in fact, chances are they all won't, but that's where next year's off season will allow us to augment this core. I guess I just see an exciting core that is ready to show up this year and that doesn't even include Mayo, Cowser and Henderson who may not be far behind.

So Mullins, Mountcastle, Hays, Santander, Mancini, and Urias are Pat Valiaka's? Rutschman is going to be up this year. Stowers is very close and Westburg may not be too far behind this year. I haven't seen anyone against promoting them this year. I guess I just don't understand your thought process that people are ok with losing and want Pat Valaika types on the team. The team is going to be made up of mostly guys from our system and the only holes that I see are on the infield where Urias looks like he's going to be solid, On top of it, we have help coming in the near future at 3B, SS and 2B (where Urias fits best). Correa just signed a contract that lets him opt out after this season which means the Orioles could very well sign him next year (If the team is sold to an owner that cares). Could the team have signed E-rod, perhaps, but it looks like Elias really wants to find out what he has in Bradish, Zimmermann, Lowther, T. Well, A. Wells, Baumann, Akin and Kremer. I'm ok with this for THIS year, but yes, next offseason the Orioles should know where their holes are in the rotation and infield and makes the appropriate trade and FA acquisitions to make them competitive in 2023. I do think the Orioles are going to be better this year as they transition from a team who definitely were not trying to win to a year in year out contender that hopefully starts in 2023.

There is little doubt, but for some reason, maybe for trade purposes, the Orioles are continually trying to shove that square peg in a round hole.

Limiting damage has been Well's problem in the majors. He's one pitch from getting out of the innings and throws a cookie to Torres for a 2-run homer. So one of these runs should be unearned but they earned the other two.

Really nice play by Hays on that liner to center. That's a tough one.

Odor is doing his best Yolmer Sanchez impression in this game.

Embarrassing play there. Mancini was nowhere where he should have been. That's the RFers ball though Odor should have had that one.

I'm starting to wonder myself. He's been DHing and Mancini has been playing the outfield.

A nice job my Mateo after Odor failed to get the runners in from 2nd and 3rd and one out. Just a nice catch by Gallo!

Really nice short hop play by Westburg!

My thoughts and notes on Bradish..

Finally a chance to see Bradish's stuff on Statcast during his spring debu against the Yankees. 1st inning: 4-seam fastball - V movement, 14-15 inches, 0-1 inch H MOV. 97.5 top, 95.7 AVG. Cutter - Avg-14 V movement, 4 to 5 inches of H mov, top 97.5, avergae screwed up because one misclassified slider Slider- 37 Vmov, 14 Horizontal, 89 MPH another was 35 vmov, 10 H Curve - 57Vmov, 6 Hv (12-6) 83.3 MPH Contact was hard when it was made, including a loud double by Judge and a 109.5 MPH ground out by Stanton 2nd inning: Fastball - 94.5-97.1 Slider - Had a real good one with over 40 inch of break Some Cutters Had a walk, but then got them out 1-2-3.. including a K on a 3-2 slider (called a cutter by statcast) 31 pitches...

But its not just the results, but how he got the results. That's really the key. Anytime you see a small sample size like 5 starts you are right to question how that plays for the future, but when you see a difference in stuff that contributes to it, it should make us feel a little better. Now, the question is, how or why did the slider improve so much? Is it sustainable?

I guess you did not read my post earlier in this thread.

I think he's got a good chance, but we haven't even seen him yet this spring so it's hard to say he's a lock.