Tony-OH

lol.. Yeah, I can't believe Garceau didn't ask him "Why he signed a bum for $7 million." It's a spring training interview. They are not going ask him why he didn't do "x" or "y". As for any other stop gaps, how does that make the team better in 2023 and beyond? The Orioles need to evaluate T. Wells, Lowther, Zimmerman, Kremer, Akin, Baumann, and eventually Bradish this year to see what they have. All of these guys will get their chance this year to show they can be part of winning future. Giving a bunch of innings to a Zach Davies instead of these guys makes little sense to me.

They are in their game logs on baseball reference. https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=bradis000kyl&type=pgl&year=2021 Bradish's high pitch count was 93 and he went over 90 three times. He pitched between 80-89 pitches six times. So he only pitched over 80 pitches 9 times last year out of his 24 games. By comparison Means pitched over 90 pitches in 17 of his 26 starts including five over 100.

That actually may not be far for the truth. Baseball has been played the way it's been played with this current configuration for a long time. Not sure why this is something they are experimenting with and what they hope to see.

I think he can be there by May. He was a 40-man guy so he's a little behind the others in the minors so he could be on a 60-70 pitch for a couple of starts then to 80 for 3-4 starts then I think you let him lose to 100. It was hard to gauge from minor league broadcasts how he held his velocity last year, but I know some starts early he was down to 91-92 by the 4th innings. Now I do remember seeing him down to 91-93 then would pop a 95 when he needed it in 5th inning of games late in the year, but I don't have the statcast data I need to really have an accurate judge. Even if he holds his velocity, command is a big deal when pitchers tire. See Lopez as an example. He can be throwing just as hard but he starts missing more and when I mean missing, missing more in the middle of the plate and he ends up getting hit. He's a legit major league pitcher, the question just remains what will his best role be for a contending team? He's certainly got a chance to stick as a starter, but I still think he ends up in the bullpen when it all said and done. But he certainly should be developed as a starter and tried as a starter first.

Gentlemen, please take your personal beef with each other offline or to DM. Also, we can tone down the attacks on people's intelligence if they have a differing opinion. This is baseball. Sometimes you just have to agree to disagree and move on.

We're not far off on Bradish, honestly. My guess though is they want to see him extend to 100 pitches and maintain his stuff and command. He hasn't done that yet. If he's still pitching to the 80 pitch limit in May I'll start having a hard time understanding what they want him to work on. I still have questions whether he can command well enough to be anything more than a 5 inning starter and why ultimately, he may make a very good late inning reliever. Bradish though is really the only guy that I can buy that argument of that has been sent down. The rest need more work or on Grayson Rodriguez's situation, there are economic issues that come into play here.

The organizational leaders like Elias, Sig, Blood, minor league manager, scouts? Not sure what you are going for here. None of the pitchers returned to the minors have shown an ability to hold stuff into 100 pitches because they weren't allowed to go over 80 last year. Bradish is the only one with AAA experience and yes, I could certainly build an argument for him to be there on opening day, but I also think he's going to spend most of 2022 with the Orioles anyways so it really doesn't matter.

What problem are they trying to fix with this? I have zero issues with changing rules IF it fixes a problem that can be proven with facts,

There is also an economic standpoint of not having guys in the majors before they are ready. Some fail to grasp that concept and just think you bring the best 25 forward and go with that. Unfortunately, it makes little sense to have guys struggle at the major league level while accruing major league time. It makes the most sense to bring guys up when they are ready for their roles at the big league level unless the team is a contender and needs that prospect to fulfill another role in order to get into the playoffs.

I don't expect much from either guy since I don't think either is much of a prospect. but I do like Westburg, Henderson and especially Mayo. Gutierrez can hold the fort.

You failed to answer the question I asked, who are the non MLB players that will open on the 28-man roster? We don't need to go back and forth because I understand your point that you think they should be better while rebuilding. The only thing I can say is I feel better about the future of this team then anytime since oh, I don't know, 1983, and I was kid back then and had no idea about drafting, developing or signing international players. As I've said, this is a transition year where the team will try to win, but will evaluate their upper prospects at the major leagues level, particularly their young pitching. If we go into next season and I don't think we are at least a possible contender and the team still hasn't made any major trades or signings, then I'll be voicing my concerns. I have zero issues with how the team is made up this season and although I too think the left side of the infield, particularly if Urias is starting at 2B, needs to be improved, I see those pieces in the system. As for the pitching staff, IF, Lyles improvement in his slider was for real then he's fine as a one year stop gap and if I finally know the future major league roles of Zimmermann, Lowther, T. Wells, Kremer, Akin, Baumann and Bradish after this season, I'll consider that a success. It also gives the top prospects (outside of Rutschman and Rodriguez who I think will be in the majors this year) another year to play at higher levels which will hopefully give Elias more trade bait where he has redundancy in order to build that competitive team at the major league level from 2023 onward.

That can't be during a game. That has to be some kind of after game situation or some kind of carnival like event since the players look to be hanging out near the pitching mound relaxing. Besides, literally there are fans just behind 3B. lol

To make even more interesting, you make any ball in the play behind the white chalk outline (vs a rope) in play and allow outfielders to run into the crowd to get to the ball.

I agree with a lot of this, but the Orioles drew well in 2014 and while the city is in a shambles since then, I do think it shows this area will support the Orioles when they put a winning team on the field once again. When Rustchman, Mayo, Cowser, Henderson, (whoever the #1 pick), Stowers, West burg and others are here and Rodriguez and Hall are in the rotatation, I do think we will see the fans come back a bit. Do I think they will draw like Houston, no, and you explained very well why, but they can draw effectively once they put a winning product on line. Next year needs to be the 1st year of that year in, year out contention that a well run organization with a sound foundation should produce.

Ok, who are the non ML players that will break on this 28-man roster? If you point to Gutierrez I will point to his 0.8 WAR that he put up in 47 games last year. While he may not be great, he performed admirably last year , particularly at defense at 3B. Are you talking about Owings who is going to be a utility guy? Mateo? I know you don't like him and he probably will end up a utility guy, but I have zero issues giving him everyday at bats for at least half a year to see what he can do. Who else? Stewart? He's a back up outfielder who is holding a spot until Stowers is ready. Who are these non MLB players that you keep referring to that Elias is playing in order to supposedly try to lose again?

I think the two starters are Means and Lyles: the next three spots are going to be a mix of: Tyler Wells, Lowther, Zimmerman and Kremer with potentially Baumann or Akin (though Akin is pitching himself back to the minors again) in the mix as piggy backs. I would not be surprised if this is how they tried it starting the year: 1. Means 2. Lyles 3. Zimmermann 4. T. Wells with 6. Akin as piggy back 5. Lowther with 7. Kremer as piggy back That leaves the bullpen as: 8. Baumann would be a long guy or potential piggy back 9. Lopez 10. Tate 11. Sulser 12. Perez 13. Scott 14. Bautista If they go 15 man pitcher staff with the 28-man roster, then either Ellis makes it as another long guy or Baker makes it or they bring up Bradish and have pitch as a piggy back when needed.

Brian Anderson is under $4.4 million contract with the Marlins. How do you know he's available? You wanna trade prospects for him? That's the problem with your theory Rob, you always just assume guys can be had and that Elias just doesn't want to do it. I think Elias knows his 3B is filled from 2023 and beyond and he's not going to trade away prospects to fill a hole for 2022. Crazily, Gutierrez was worth 0.8 WAR in 47 games with the Orioles last year. I have no idea how he was worth 0.6 oWAR with the numbers he put up, but that's what it says. Now I don't think Gutierrez is the longterm answer here or anywhere else, but he's fine as place holder and Owens gives a little depth.

You can keep saying that, but who was available that would be better for a year? The Orioles have plenty of 3B candidates by next year so who was going to make the team better for one year at 3B? I don't think it's quite as easy as what you think. I do think 3B is a weakness for the this team this year but it won't be soon enough.

I think that last sentence is very telling and something that we just don't know about these guys yet. Hopefully this year we start to see Bradish and Rodriguez allowed to go to 100 pitches instead of being on that 80 pitch limit last year. Hall may still be on that 80 -pitch limit through most of the season due to missing most of last year, but even he should be stretched out to 100 by year's end. I'll be disappointed if we're in May and they are still only going 80 pitches.

That's good. I didn't look at his numbers too closely other than glancing at his velocity numbers because of this thread. If he can throw -94-96 with better sink and a better slider then that is fine. The key for him is to lessen the mistakes in the middle of the plate.

BTW BTW, people can say what they want about Gary Rajisch, but he drafted both Rodriguez and Hall outside of the top 10. The Orioles haven't had a high school drafted pitching prospect with their potential ever make the major leagues. Let's hope they break that barrier and then let's thank Rajsich for his selections!

If the team was in a contender, the team very well may have just used him as an electric reliever, but he's got starter's stuff with a plus curveball and change as well. He needs to be groomed as a starter unless he gets hurt again or doesn't hold up, then you have to consider getting him up in the majors as a reliever. He's good enough to pitch in the majors, but I'm sure the Orioles are more worried about getting him through the season healthy. I still think we could see him in the second half of the season, but I doubt he throws over 100 IP this season.

It appears that the Orioles are looking at Gutierrez, Owings and Nevin at 3B mostly this spring. I expect Gutierrez to start the year as the 3B and Owings to make it as a utility, especially with the 28-man roster to start the year. Nevin may share some 3B time with Bannon at 3B in Norfolk.

All this talk about Tate's velocity "increase" and in the only statcast game of the spring we've seen him in he was down about 2 MPH from last year. Glad to see him putting in the work to get better though. He needs to be more consistent.

I'm not too concerned over the Bradish thing. My opinion is if he pitches well, we're going to see a lot of him in Baltimore in 2023.