Jammer7

Could certainly happen that way. I think Grenier has a shot. The glove is really good, but we know the offensive issues and has about average range.

I would break it down like this: Definite additions: DL Hall Terrin Vavra Kyle Bradish Probable Additions: Rob Neustrom Felix Bautista Kevin Smith Nick Vespi Possible Additions: Ofelky Peralta, Blaine Knight, Cody Sedlock, Cadyn Grenier, Cameron Bishop Food for thought, but who would you rather keep if you have to keep one of each line? Stewart vs. Neustrom Fry vs. Vespi Bannon/Martin vs. Grenier Kriske vs. Knight Baker vs. Sedlock

That is very fair. If you have to choose between Fry and Vespi, who would you keep? Maybe neither? I will not assume that what happened to Fry is fixable. We hope it is. Fry is twice the salary of Vespi. Vespi is 3-4 years younger than Fry. I think Vespi would be selected if left off, and it depends on which team selected him whether he comes back or not. A factor in many of these pitchers who have struggled in AAA (Smith, Vespi, Knight, and others) is reported to be related to the different balls, sure. But why did the Orioles not renew Kennie Steenstra or Gary Kendall? IDK. The jump from AA to AAA was reported to be larger than normal last year. Same with the jump from AAA to MLB. Smith, Blaine Knight and Vespi all looked great in AA. Probably all just bullpen/middle inning guys. I am particularly not huge on Smith, but I think Vespi and Knight might have swing and miss sliders in the pen. Knight’s struggles seemed to begin after the birth of his first child. Many of us can relate to that, lol.

Most of our best talent does not need to be added yet. And having the #1 pick in the R5, we should take at least one this time around. After this season, I hope it is as you say it should be.

Strom certainly has been a quality coach for a long time. And the criticism on Holt is fair. He appeared to be in over his head this year. Brocail was solid, certainly. Not sure why they needed to make a change, but when the second pitching coach is called a much better communicator, good grief. I do not know why the Orioles needed to move Chris Holt to the pitching coach slot. Perhaps they wanted to keep him from leaving. At the moment, the jury is still out for me. Was he a gimmick guy, who simply extolled the virtues of the sticky stuff and turned some average guys into solid performers? Taught a change up to Means? If the young guys do not take steps forward in 2022, Elias will have to address that position. I know he is loyal to his guy, but Baltimore pitchforks are sharp and quick.

Great info!

This reminds me of the threads about the non-tender of Hanser Alberto and Renato Nunez. Two slightly below replacement level players who were lovable losers in orange and black. Some skills, no upside, and not major league starters. Some on the board called these moves “stupid” and ranted about it making no sense. They played part-time roles for KC and Detroit in 2021, and for much less money than they would have made in arbitration. Now, the Zach Pop decision was a mistake, and I said so at the time. Other than that, I guess, because of the way it turned out, we can say he made a mistake in trading Mike Yastrzemski too. At the time, it was what it was and Yaz came out of nowhere for SF. Good on him! He was a good platoon guy this year on a very good team. Of course every GM makes mistakes. They gather all of the info and make the best decision for their organization. Without knowing what Mike Elias knows, critics will say what they want. I have laid out why I think it happened, and why it happened now. Others will be traded or released, sure. Does it matter when? Not really, but there are certain times when you have a better chance to slip guys through. I believe they would have liked to have kept Hunter, and almost got him through. Last thought on this for me is that we also do not know what Elias has in store for acquisitions in 2022. I would say he knows how to build a bullpen, thus all of the relievers traded since 2019. They were simply over-worked. What he has yet to do is build a viable starting rotation. If he fails to make some meaningful acquisitions this offseason, I will be critical of him for that. I get running the young starters out there last year for the purposes of evaluation, but the training wheels are off. This season counts for me. This is when I begin to hold Elias accountable for building a major league roster.

As a fan, no. Not because I am afraid of what Mike Elias would want to do. But, it does scare me what ownership or a later GM might do. This is a group of owners who traditionally cannot help themselves and get out of their own way. They cannot stand prosperity for the sport. They are quick to take a quick buck. The game would be even more lopsided than it is now.

Well, if you carry those who are not preparing properly, who would rather be hunting…IDK. I think it’s all part of it. When you are the worst team in MLB, you make big changes. You get rid of those who are not committed to delivering on the field. You have to deliver a message to everyone involved. Mike Elias made the decision based on what he has seen over three years. As bad as he wanted Harvey to be the guy we all wanted him to be, Hunter was not that guy. There are various opinions on Harvey here. But to say that Mike Elias is stupid, ok, carry on. I’m out on that one. If Harvey goes on to be a stud, I’ll eat my words with Italian Gravy and a table Chianti.

Yeah, I know. But if no other team took him, and they picked at the end, then why not sneak him through? Why waste a 40 man slot?

I think several others will be cut, certainly. The timing was meant to try to get him through, and it nearly worked. I don’t think he is the same guy he once was, stuff wise. He may never be again. I have heard things from people I know that suggest he had poor preparation. It’s heresay, but that many injuries seems to corroborate. IDK. Sometimes you have to add by subtraction. Change the culture. I’ve been an advocate on this move for months. He was zero value for us since 2019.

27 other stupid teams too, I guess. The Giants are probably going to try to pass him through waivers and outright him to AAA to see if he is salvageable. I do not get the venom, Rob. They stuck by him for a long time. Time to cut bait. It’s a business. If he comes back and proves they were wrong, then they deserve the criticism. But no sense keeping cheap and broken talent when it brings no value, at all.

Smith pitched very well, lights out, in AA, not so much in AAA. So, he isn’t an automatic protect for me unless there was some negligence or malfunction on the part of departed coach Kennie Steenstra or manager Gary Kendall. I understand the push back on Smith, but I think the upside is worth protecting this year. As far as Chris Ellis, at first glance I was a little surprised, but not too much when you look at the peripherals. A fly ball pitcher, not a high k-rate, his babip was a lucky low .228 with us, the FIP was 4.57 and the xFIP was 5.4. I know the ERA was 2.15, but that was really deceiving in a small sample. I would bet his metrics on spin and effective spin are not great either. https://www.fangraphs.com/players/chris-ellis/16125/stats?position=P

You may be right, hard to tell. I could see them signing a proven MLB veteran catcher to begin the season as the starter and move Adley up in May to become the primary guy and understudy the veteran guy. Maybe a Sandy Leon or Kurt Suzuki type.

If the Orioles place Sparks the AAA roster, then no. I like the list of players you protected. I keep the same as you, but I will add one: DL Hall Kyle Bradish Terrin Vavra Robert Neustrom Kevin Smith Felix Bautista Ofelky Peralta Blaine Knight I think Vespi, Grenier and Sedlock have a chance of being selected. Perhaps Bishop and Dorrian.

Mateo was not injured for most of his career. Harvey was talented, but look back on his career stats. He was not really very good the past two years when he was healthy. Reliability is a big factor for relief pitchers. He could not go on back to back days. It was time to cut bait after nine years of waiting for him to come around. Besides, when SF DFA's him to stash him into the minors and no one claims him, he will have officially fallen off the map. You think we will win with guys that no one else wants? I don't. It's time to get serious about the major league team.

I went with Rom/Basallo. I think Tony really likes Rom, and I know he was impressed with Basallo’s power at 16 yoa. Bradish/Baumann was a close second.

I have heard some things over the years questioning his preparation and dedication. It isn’t an uncommon thing. Some guys don’t even like baseball. Some actually hate it. It’s a job. As far as his arm, are we sure he has the same stuff he showed in 2019? Maybe this wakes him up. How many teams passed on him during the waiver process? 27? Yikes.

Kriske, Fry, Mattson, Bannon, Richie Martin and DJ Stewart are all bubble guys for me. Fry and Stewart might be next. No doubt Elias has tried to trade these guys he has DFA’d, but found no takers. They have been evaluating these guys for three years. Time to cut losing players loose and change the landscape. This tells me Elias is going to make a few meaningful acquisitions.

I’m not certain Stewart isn’t DFA’d or traded. I have laid that out in previous threads. Terrible defense and consistently late on an average fastball are a really bad combo for me. I think Akin, Lopez and Mateo all come back. Lopez might be our best RH reliever beyond Wells and Sulser, and he stayed healthy throughout the year. He may not get $1.5 million, but he is worthy of being tendered.

I think there is more to go. The four on the 60 day IL makes it 31. Then, they protect between 5-7 guys. We can bet that they’ll make a waiver claim or two, and probably pick two R5 players. Then, sign a FA catcher, middle infielder, starter and at least one reliever. Some of that might be minor league deals, with spring invites, but I think 6-8 more are going.

I said it weeks ago, all the talent in the world does nothing if it cannot get on the field. We have to assume the team knows things we do not. So, the Giants take a flier on him. So what. Quit with the Yaz comps, please. In nine years here, he pitched what, 23.2 innings in Baltimore? He cannot be used two days in a row. And he was not very good when he was healthy the past two years. I had heard he had issues with his offseason work and dedication to his craft, but that is heresay. I have no direct knowledge of that, but it might explain why he is always injured. Good luck. We need the 40 man space to have guys who can actually pitch.

I did not get any impression you are down on him. Your thoughts are grounded and realistic on this. Blood and Elias will do what is best for his personal development. I just think if he can stick at SS, there is value to pairing him with Adley sooner than later.

It may not be normal for all college players, but I was talking about his personal trajectory. As a supplemental 1st round pick, with his apparent aptitude, athletic ability, defensive prowess and SEC experience, I don’t think it would be unusual at all. It also would not surprise me at all if it took him another year. I would not be down on him much if it took a little longer. I think it might be ok to move him a little quicker than they might normally and pair him with Adley, Stowers, Neustrom and such to build the young nucleus together as soon as possible. He will continue to learn on the job and may struggle some at first.

I agree that a normal progression for him would be to come up around August, perhaps sooner. I really want to see him thrive in AA first. I am not as worried about AAA, but I think it is important to have a strong few months in AA.