Pickles

This is basically my position verbatim.

You honestly believe that they have similar defensive value? Urias is certainly a better hitter.

I don't see the eagerness to hand Ortiz a starting spot on Opening Day next year. If Urias replicates his 2nd half then I think it isn't long before Ortiz or Westburg could supplant him, but we should see this year that besides Henderson and Rutschman, who are on their own levels, the rookies have struggled generally in their first chances.

Yeah, I was going to mention he lead off the inning, worked himself a good count, swung at balls 4 and 5, and then Ked looking. Although I wouldn't call that pitch "perfect" except in so much as it was a "perfect" pitcher's pitch, borderline low and inside. He giveth and he taketh away.

If you can bring an external upgrade to LF, a "big bat", that doesn't compromise the defense too much, then that could make sense. And that is of course an endless conversation revolving around a million hypotheticals. But as the organizational depth chart stands now, Hays should be starting in LF on Opening Day.

Henderson is probably a better overall player at SS but man, I like that Gold Glove SS thing. If it were up to me, I'd go into next season 3b Henderson, SS Mateo, 2b Urias, with Ortiz and Westburg as Util or AAA. Urias has the shortest leash. And if Mateo replicates his 2022 in 2023, then maybe going into 2024 you look to move after he's established his value level, much as Mullins did this year, and you have a clearer idea of what Ortiz and Westburg are. But that's just me.

He's a 2+ WAR guy. With upside for more. He's 26. This fourth outfielder talk is pretty silly. That said, I've been very disappointed with his second half, and it's fair to criticize his performance.

I just really think it's worth noting Jorge Mateo's performance in the bottom of the eighth inning last night. He made three defensive plays, ranging from nice to spectacular, to record all three outs and save the Orioles at least two runs, likely several more. He had Jim Palmer, an expert if there ever was one, waxing poetic about Mateo's defensive ability, calling it "as good as it gets" and specifically conjuring up the names Aparicio, Belanger, and Ripken. I include the link to the final out. https://www.mlb.com/video/akil-baddoo-lines-out-to-shortstop-jorge-mateo?cp=MIXED&p=0&q=TeamId %3D [110] Order By Timestamp DESC It seems to me a lot of people are eager to move on from Mateo. There are options, and he isn't a perfect player by any means. However, in my opinion, the turn around this year has largely been predicated on run prevention, and Jorge Mateo playing GG SS has been a huge part of that.

Walked twice last night. Uncharacteristically.

That's a bad play. He has to catch that ball.

Haha. I did and it wasn't till after my original post that I saw that Gunnar taglet at the end. I mean it depends on what you mean by massive. I expect Gunnar to put up ~5 WAR next year. Is that massive enough?

If I was choosing, even among those two, I think Gunnar will add more additional WAR to the team next than this year. But he's already here, and performing very well, so I can see why you would say he isn't technically a "breakout" player.

That was my thought regarding Gunnar. What constitutes a breakout? I fully expect the two player with the most improvement for WAR provided this year to WAR provided next year will be Gunnar and Grayson. But I think most of us probably expect that. Does that still count as a breakout? Or does it have to be somebody exceeding an established baseline of performance?

This looks like it is going to be a historic, or at least generational, debut class for the Orioles this season.

I"m assuming Gunnar is not an option?

I did google it. There's nothing but speculation on Major League Trade Rumors. And even that is nothing beyond "entertaining offers." IMO, the front office is significantly less motivated to move Mullins than you are. Call that what you will. I am too.

I haven't heard any credible reports the Orioles have engaged in substantive talks about trading Mullins. And I'm not sure what willingness they have shown to move him, since there haven't been any credible reports they engaged in substantive talks regarding Mullins. I'd be willing to bet quite a bit of money that it's been bandied about more on this board than it has in the Orioles' FO.

Right or wrong, I share more with your analysis than I do with many O's fans.

Hey, I think we can all agree that "everybody" is available for the "right price." But this idea that we're going to pull the wool over other team's front offices, and trick them into wildly overpaying for a guy is silly. For instance, I think Mullins is actually more valuable now than last year, precisely because he's established his value further and isn't seen as a one year wonder. The problem with trading Mullins imo is there is no replacement in the organization, unless you want to take a decent hit offensively or defensively in CF. You can trade Mancini because you have Hays/Santander. You can trade Lopez because you have Bautista. I'm sympathetic to talking about trading Mateo or Urias- though I don't really want to for various reasons- because they can be replaced internally.

Rizzo on a three year deal. Gross.

Don't mistake the desire to move Mullins on this board to anything the Orioles Front Office shares in reality. Some have been fetishizing trading Mullins every since he broke out. Such is the life at the OH.

That's the spirit!!!

He's not a burner, but he runs appreciably faster than Santander, who I would classify as below average.

I'd be shocked if their sprint speed was all that close. But, as noted, I agree that Santander has a solid arm.

Oh, yeah, Hays and Santander shouldn't be in the same category when it comes to defense.