LookinUp

Paying him 3.5m for a season isn't necessarily over rating him. Over rating him is not taking a useful deal in early December when you know that someone else comparable will likely be available for around 3.5m, or less. The SS thread makes that clear, IMO. Don't get me wrong, part of me wonders if Iglesias didn't find the same magic potion that other 30 something players magically discovered in the last few decades. If so, we may have just given up a 5 WAR guy for a 5th round pick. That would suck, but I think it's just as likely that he cannot play 81 games next year if that's the case.

Reminds me of the time I was listening to sports talk in south Jersey and they were going on and on about the 3rd string full back. That's what you do in the offseason. Not that I think you're wrong, but the reason people want plus defense is that worse defense creates higher leverage situations for pitchers. It's true, but I also think it's true that always scoring 0 runs creates those higher leverage innings. I'm just saying, while I agree with your point, I think there's a counter point that mitigates just how important that nice defense is.

Put me in the camp of: 1. I don't care what Elias' motivation was, because it's Iglesias. 2. Covid aside, I have zero faith that Iglesias will play a massively valuable 150 games for anyone this year, which means that I'm not buying the argument that this will significantly hurt the development of our pitching. 3. I hate the Elias quote because of the optics, but agree that we're still in a position where I'm fine trading guys who aren't part of our future for guys who might be part of a winning future. 4. I'm fine with adding another pitcher that we liked, even if the odds for this particular guy aren't high. He goes into our growing inventory from which a couple of guys with lowish odds, like Means or Baumann were a couple of years ago, will likely emerge. The 2020 O's played well for 40 games and people got all excited. That's cool, but we are still a rebuild that needs to happen, and even after the rebuild is complete we're likely to need to be the type of team that makes deals like this to keep replenishing the farm wherever possible. The worst thing Elias could do is over rate a guy like Jose Iglesias.

I feel like I’m the only one here who has looked at Jose Iglesias’ baseball reference page. Let’s just say last year was an outlier. How he suddenly became a legit #3 hitter is anyone’s guess. Whether he’ll ever play in most of his team’s games in the field is anyone’s guess. The fact that Elias got something of potential value for him is awesome.

What makes you think they’re not interested in winning? Is it this move, or is it the GM saying they’re not interested in winning? ...though I’m in favor of this move.

I am perfectly fine with this move. Iglesias didn’t play much last year (health) and I have no idea what to think of the bat, which came out of nowhere. He’s a career low value guy who impressed in small samples last year. We got two young arms in return. This is what a team building a farm system should do.

I had been thinking of him as a sell-high opportunity. Hopefully we did and it's not a pure $$ deal.

Guess I'll start a new thread. Per Rosenthal, Iglesias has been traded to the Angels. No word on a return yet.

Roch confirms: https://twitter.com/masnRoch/status/1334290153851002880?s=20

Just got traded to the Angels, per Rosenthal.

I think it's a little rich to blame Severino's defense last year on the pitching. He really was lazy at times. I also think that maybe he just had a down year. Sometimes you get into bad habits. My recollection was that he had a positive defensive reputation when we brought him in originally. Hopefully he can re-focus on pitch blocking so he can prevent wild pitches and not allow passed balls. I assume the O's are hoping as much too. With that said, I think the problem with criticism of this move is the assumption that we could get as good, or nearly as good, on the cheap (which this deal is). I'm not convinced that the total value of an available minimum salary catcher would be comparable. I don't love Severino, but I suspect he'd be orders of magnitude better than a guy like Wynns or Sisco over a large sample size.

The issue with rosy expectations based on small sample sizes is the fact that pretty much every player not named Ruth, Bonds or Trout has real slumps that take real number that real people post and bring them back to a lower level (opposite also). You have to look at track record. .900 just isn't a reasonable expectation even though we can hope for that over a single magical year. This is the real issue here. Availability is the most important availability. Both guys could turn out to be Steve Pearce for the Red Sox (e.g., a really talented guy who didn't have long term sustained success but who has that magical year in another uniform, but cannot be relied upon to hand a starting role to in our own org.) Disclaimer: if they're truly preparing to sell, this is 100% acceptable cost-based activity.

Practically, other than pure money, I feel like the effect will be that as games are less likely to be canceled, there’s less of a reason to keep Chris Davis on the team. That will create a little roster flexibility that could be significant for a notable piece like Diaz.

Because over time right handers usually hit left handers better than RHP? Don't get me wrong, it's not a hill I'd die on. I'd much rather they find a guy who adds something that isn't on the roster (great defense, baserunning, a bat that compliments us at a position of need).

Are we? I figured he was ahead of all of the guys I personally think about (e.g., Westburg, Henderson, Hernaiz, Servideo, Mayo, Ortiz, etc.). I could be wrong though. And to be honest, it's clear we don't have a bunch of CFers knocking on the door, and the one we do have has a lot of injury history, so he's moving from one need to another in hopes (perhaps) of being a potential help at either. That doesn't mean that it's certain he's only got a utility profile.

I'm cool with a move to the OF, but I'm not sure what it means to move a guy off of a position of need for our team. Hints of a utility profile, to me, rather than an every day guy.

I certainly agree that the O's are being cheap. The pattern is established. I also think it's reasonable considering Covid, PA's health and its potential implications for an ownership change in the next 12-24 months. I don't have any inside knowledge, but it sure seems like the org is being prepared for sale. Spending another million to win another game in 2021 doesn't seem to be high on the priority list. As for roster composition, it would be nice if we could find a LH hitting guy. That's assuming Davis is gone, which at some point he will be.

I don't know exactly why, but it's fair to assume that they think he has more potential than whatever other stuff was available, right?

If you view Shaw as a known quantity, then it doesn’t make sense. If you view him as a guy with a potential that you want take give a shot to unlock, then it makes perfect sense.

They did get around a fair amount down there against other teams didn't they? I think they were seen, but I agree it can't be on the level of a minor league season.

I do. They have Davis, Mountcastle and Mancini. There’s only so many 1b/DH you can have.

So Davis cost of Nunez. Probably true, but I understand they have to keep Davis.

Kind of different for a pitcher, no?

If I were the O's, I'd contract Delmarva before Frederick just because I'd prefer that footprint in Frederick. Don't want the Nats to take it.

If you all tell me that Diaz gets traded this offseason, I would be zero percent surprised. Seems to have higher value to those outside the org than those inside this org.