EddeeEddee
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Posts posted by EddeeEddee
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9 hours ago, webbrick2010 said:
yep he will have to trade some and promote the rest.
Ortiz, Westburg, Cowser, and Herstad are all better then the guys playing on the 26
Really, better than Adley and Gunnar? Better than Hays who leads the AL in batting average? I guess you would have said that about Grayson Rodriguez a few months ago too, eh? And what does it matter when hitting is not this team's problem? If the execs on other teams really believe those 4 are better than the O's starting 26 on then perhaps we should trade all of them for pitching. Really, the Orioles need to go back to being a pitching first franchise like they when they were a dynasty from the 60s thru the 80s.
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4 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:
I agree. But it seems trading Hays and/or Santander for pitching would be sort of like “robbing Peter to pay Paul”. It’s not really a net gain.
Agree on Hays especially, but if people really feel Cowser is ready to take over for Santander -- though I don't think anyone really knows if he is -- then it could make sense to trade Santander for the right return. It might take Santander and a couple of minor leaguers to get some arms that are any good. I can't see Elias trading Santander but who knows?
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6 minutes ago, webbrick2010 said:
This season is going to go south in a hurry if Elias doesn't trade for pitching and promote the AAA guys as soon as possible.
To get any good pitchers Elias will have to trade some of the AAA guys, unless he trades Santander or Hays. Mateo and Frazier are just throw ins by now -- unless they're trades for change of scenery guys.
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15 minutes ago, Birdland in NC said:
Ramon Urias, Frazier and Santander are better ball players than Westberg, Ortiz and Kjersted. We are looking to win playoff games, definitely want them in the lineup.
I don't think anyone is suggesting Kjerstad is ready, and I don't think that many are suggesting Urias should be replaced (he could remain as the super utility infielder). It's more about if Ortiz and Westburg are really ready to replace Mateo and Frazier and when Cowser should be promoted since there is no current need for a left-handed bat in the outfield (at least not until Hicks comes back to earth).
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2 hours ago, Big Al said:
I think “I Love Rock and Roll” should replace “Thank God I’m a Country Boy “.
Beat me to it. Totally agree especially since Jett is a diehard O's fan.
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On 6/12/2023 at 9:33 AM, glenn__davis said:
Obviously it's still way early but I think the AL playoff picture seems somewhat clear already.
Only 1 team will come out of the central.
It seems like only 2 possible spots out the west. I suppose both LAA and SEA have plenty of time to make a run if they get hot.
So taking out the division winners it seems like 4 teams fighting for 3 spots. O's will need to finish above one of NYY, TOR or HOU/TEX.
The Angels are now in second place in the West, barely ahead of Houston. The Western Divisions in both the AL and NL are most intriguing.
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2 hours ago, Billy F-Face3 said:
I'm with you guys. Get them off our turf. I liked when Camden Yards was packed to capacity and rocking in the days long before the Washington Expos.
One would also think that they would save money by avoiding litigation in courts. Lawyers and court fees aren't cheap.
I don't like the Nats, but it's next to impossible to imagine them leaving DC.
What's amazing is the combined metro area Baltimore and DC and extended suburbs is now the third largest population center in the country -- behind the NY and LA areas -- recently becoming just a bit bigger than the Chicago and the SF Bay metro areas. A population area that size should be able to support two teams.
Coexistence should be achievable (especially with the O's winning again and the Nats terrible so soon after their WS title). But maybe the MASN partnership should dissolve since these two don't know how to get along.
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2 hours ago, Mr-splash said:
Nationals need to get off our turf
Nashville Nationals? Has a ring to it.
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2 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:
I never want/wanted the O’s to deal Cowser. He’s a borderline top 20th prospect. You don’t trade those type of assets unless you are getting back a star.
No I have less than zero interest in Greinke. He makes the O’s worse not better.
No I am not that interested in Cease the way he has been pitching this year.
You'd rather run Cole Irvin or Spencer Watkins out there every 5th game over a Zach Greinke? The idea is: who could the O's get for a player like Mateo that has some value? Maybe someone like Greinke at best (though can't see why KC would want Mateo).
Why are you suggesting Cowser should only be traded for a star? That's pretty obvious I'd say. Not like anyone said anything otherwise, but the line on Cowser is he struggles somewhat with left handed pitching and offspeed stuff. The hype on him is not not unanimous. Of the prospects that have high value that the FO might actually consider trading, perhaps he is at the top of the list. Do you really think you're going to get a top starting pitcher, especially with more than a year til FA, for anyone less than Cowser + other players? If not then we'll have to have fun dreaming about getting Corbin Burnes or Marcus Stroman for spare parts while the Dodgers make a real offer for them.
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1 hour ago, Bemorewins said:
Why in the world would the Orioles be interested in giving Greinke starts if they are trying to win? What does Zach Greinke do for us other than occupy a roster spot and give us less than mediocre results?
Well, you're probably right that the O's should aim higher, but then you're talking about possibly dealing Cowser/Ortiz and DL Hall for a rental like Marcus Stroman when the Dodgers and other teams also badly need starting pitching. I would love to see the O's be even more ambitious than that and go for a pitcher with a year or two left prior to FA -- maybe someone like Corbin Burnes if he's available -- though that would cost more in prospects.
I like Greinke and think he'll get better as the season progresses. I doubt KC would even want Jorge Mateo, so my trade idea was more a stab at approximate value than a realistic proposal -- and it doesn't have to be Greinke. It's more about dealing Mateo for somebody with some value, and I think soon the FO would rather deal Mateo than Ortiz or Westburg -- unless a great opportunity for a top starter presents itself.
You still want to deal major prospects for Dylan Cease and his 4.31 ERA? Pitching talent is not as static and predictable as you think it is, even for the older guys.
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11 minutes ago, HelenaEngineer said:
I get this as well, but I think the compromise solution where Ortiz gets at least semi-regular playing time, putting either Frazier or Mateo on the bench on any given night, instead of playing Ortiz and Westburg both, seems reasonable and more likely to occur. If they feel Westburg is more likely to contribute than Ortiz, they can always DFA a catcher and option Ortiz and give those ABs to Westburg. I have no reason to believe their expectations are higher for Westburg than for Ortiz, but who knows. They certainly would not reveal their internal evaluations, but who they activated in April might be a clue.
I do like Frazier as a bench player due to his versatility in the field, experience and ability to put the ball in play. At the same time, I would want either Ortiz or Westburg to provide an upgrade offensively over what Frazier is likely to do and would like to find out if one of them can do that, sooner rather than later.
Frankly, if you took Urias, Mateo, Frazier, Ortiz and Westburg, realizing that you need at least two of them on the field and one on the bench, and asked me who would provide the most production between now and the end of the season given regular playing time, I would have no idea. I hope Elias, Hyde and company do and that combination of players gets that time.Just speculating but I think there's a good chance one of them gets traded before the deadline. Which one depends on the trading partner and their needs. A win now partner will, I'm guessing, want Urias or Frazier, while a rebuilding partner will obviously more likely want Ortiz or Westburg. Mateo I think would be a good trade piece for another bounce back candidate or a rental (or both) -- like maybe a Zach Greinke (though I doubt Mateo alone would get Greinke).
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Don't know if it's been mentioned somewhere else but Tyler Wells has the best WHIP in all of baseball at 0.86. Pretty impressive.
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34 minutes ago, upinflamezzz said:
O's will keep Mateo. The guy has too much speed to give up on. Mountcastle on the other hand has become Mark Trumbo and guys like that don't fit into Elias's vision. O'Hearn is doing well in the small sample that we've seen him. With the shift removed he could do well. Plus, Kjerstad and Cowser are coming up. I bet Santander gets traded in the off season because he becomes a FA in 2025 and Mountcastle gets DFA'd refusing to go and becomes a free agent. Holliday is going to hit the show in 2024/2025 also. That means Hays, Mullins & Cowser in the outfield and Henderson, Holliday, Mateo and Kjerstad become the infield with O'Hearn as DH. We lose Mullins in 2026 to FA then Holliday will move to the lead off. Holliday, Coswer, Rutschman, Kjerstad are going to be a scary top four of the lineup for a good 5 years.
So I guess you think Westburg and Ortiz are either traded or coming off the bench. There is a risk Cowser is a platoon outfielder. The line on him is not only does he not hit lefties well but he struggles with offspeed stuff too. It's not a sure thing about all these all these guys make it as everyday players. Cowser and one or two of the others might be trade bait for starting pitching.
At this point I hope the O's try to extend Mullins. He's arguably the best overall player on the team and with some luck might not cost an arm and a leg to extend.
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12 hours ago, Orioles0615 said:
Because Ortiz doesn't play, and when he does he plays for 2 abs and then Hyde lifts him from the game. And that slash line is still better than Mateo which is who he should be replacing
His slash line isn't close to as good as Mateo's. The only worse slash line on the team is Kyle Stowers and Josh Lester, and at this point both have had fewer PAs than Ortiz. Ortiz has no walks and only one extra base hit in over 30 ABs. He'll get his opportunities but he hasn't shown he's ready to take over for anyone yet. I'm more interested in seeing Westburg at this point.
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1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:
Elias likes rentals, they aren't under contract next year. That's a feature, not a bug.
Anyway, you need to accept risk. The stars are not going to align to give the O's a cost effective impact player with years of team control for peanuts.
If you sit there waiting for the best deal you end up sitting out.
If you're suggesting it's more risk to trade for a player that has an extra year or two prior to free agency -- because they would cost too much in prospects -- I see your point.
I just think the Cardinals will want pitching in a trade, and I don't think the O's trade should trade any of their better pitchers for a couple months of Jordan Montgomery. The Orioles have a bad track record trading promising young pitchers (though Buck Showalter isn't here anymore to pressure the front office to make a win now trade).
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3 hours ago, Billy F-Face3 said:
People are expecting too much from rookies. Everyone seems to think minor league promotions will be some magic pill, but they fail to realize the bug difference between the minor leagues and the major leagues. Ortiz hit a home run in AAA the night before his most recent recall. He was batting an amazing stat line in the minors. So was Kyle Stowers this season. Vavra is doing that now. They all keep getting called up after their strong minor league play, only to struggle with putrid numbers in the Major League.
It would be wise for the team to cushion themselves to absorb the promotion of 1 player at a time they can play regularly and develop with Big League At Bats. Because so far, every promotion from the Orioles, including May of 2022 with Adley, has shown it takes a bit of unknown amount of time to adjust. Some players take longer than others. Very few are exceptions. Gunnar came up and was good in his 2022 cup of coffee but still had to adjust in 2023 in his 1st real full major league season. (He's still making adjustments and in the process of getting even better.)
Agreed, and it's getting silly people keep pointing to Corbin Carroll as some kind of example for promoting rookies. There's a reason Arizona offered him a $100 million extension at only age 22. He's just on another level.
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2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:
Do you think they can get where we want them to go without accepting some risk?
There's always risk in trades. But trading for a rental is probably too big a risk for a team that doesn't spend money anymore.
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It's a big risk for the O's to trade for rentals. Even though I think pitching is more important I'd rather trade for Goldschmidt since he's got another year on his contract.
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45 minutes ago, Orioles0615 said:
So we should never promote them and let them sit in Aaa? They have to come up sometime. What about Corbin Carrol not everyone struggles. And if they do who cares. They can easily be better than Frazier and other scrubs we run out there
Right now Corbin Carroll is just better than everyone not named Ohtani or Judge. Those numbers probably won't hold up but currently he's a lefty Mike Trout.
Gotta hope Westburg gets promoted pretty soon. Reading up it looks like many think Cowser needs more time, partly to recover more from recent injury but also because of noted struggles with offspeed stuff and against LH pitching in general. Feels like he may not get the call for awhile. I would think he'll eventually take Aaron Hicks' spot on the team but later rather than sooner.
I don't understand why everyone is so down on the O's lineup when good pitching (Steele and Hendricks) commonly beats good hitting. Couple that with O's pitching being atrocious on Friday. The Cubs are erratic and flawed but on a good day they look like they can dominate. I'm more worried about the O's bullpen and the ability of this team to get another quality starter than I am about the lineup.
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1 hour ago, Yossarian said:
Just when I start thinking this team is pretty good and might be able to win a playoff series, the effort against Cubs pitching brings me back to reality.
ERA wise the Cubs have a Top 10 starting pitching staff. Orioles starters aren't even in the Top 20. The O's have the superior bullpen. Team OPS wise the O's are marginally better than the Cubs.
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The offense is going to struggle now and then against good pitching, especially with Mullins out. Justin Steele is a Cy Young candidate and is easily better this year than any starter on the O's, and Kyle Hendricks could still be better than anyone not named Tyler Wells. It's not really surprising the O's have dropped two to the Cubs against those two, especially if we're running Cole Irvin out there.
The O's bullpen is better than the Cubs' but not by as much as you'd think.
I do agree it's about time to promote Westburg and Cowser, but I don't blame Hyde and Elias for waiting this long, at least until Mullins got hurt. The O's have been winning with the current roster, but with Mullins and Mountcastle out it's time for some promotions. That said, are people really sold Ortiz is ready for MLB pitching? I understand he needs more at bats but we can't cry if he's not hitting much if we're crying for promotions all over the place too.
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6 minutes ago, dtk9119 said:
The reason we go all hyperbolic on these game threads is because you shouldn't be losing series to mediocre below .500 teams like the Cubs.
And when you look ugly doing it because the FO refuses to bring up better talent to help bolster the offense.
Tampa wins again tonight and you fall further behind.
Compared to the Cubs starters the O's starters are the mediocre ones. Justin Steele is just behind Stroman as a Cy Young candidate. Kyle Hendricks hasn't seen too much action this year but he's pitching pretty well and has been solid most of his career. The O's bullpen might be a bit better but that's debatable.
I agree it's about time to promote Westburg and Cowser, but I'm not sold Ortiz is really ready for the MLB level. The O's are just going to struggle at the plate now and then against good pitching, especially with Mullins out.
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6 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:
Lol, this game is a circus.
Blind umpire, 8 inch mitt's on hand, and the Orioles who have decided that these mediocre Cubs pitchers can dominate them.
How are these Cubs pitchers mediocre? Justin Steele is one of the top starters in baseball this year. Every Cub pitcher in today's game would probably be an upgrade on the O's.
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3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:
WHAT?
I showed evidence that the O's are not following the Astros plan and I get are, well sure they aren't. Who would expect them to?
Folks here misrepresent what the Rays and Astros do and did all the time.
The Astros absolutely tried to draft and develop pitching, they still are. You don't see them waiting until the 5th round to select pitchers year after year.
The Rays extend young players to team favorable deals.
The O's are *almost* exclusively drafting and developing hitters while emphasizing players on one and two year contracts. Now maybe that works out, but it sure ain't what those other two teams are doing.
Right, I'm agreeing with you. You pointed out how Elias did draft pitchers in the early rounds in Houston. I'm just saying based on the 4 Houston pitchers you cited, none of which have panned out, Elias is now gun shy about drafting pitchers in the early rounds based on his own experience in Houston. I think you and I are both saying the O's should not get carried away with a "don't draft pitchers early" philosophy based on a run of bad luck in Houston.
But it could be Elias understands Houston could take more risks in the draft because they have a lot more money to spend in free agency and paying for veterans' salaries acquired in trades. He may feel the need to be more conservative when drafting pitchers in Baltimore because the O's, even in a trade, may not allow Elias (for example) to pay for the remaining years on Justin Verlander's contract.
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That's the Angels for you.