Can_of_corn

I'm sure there are dozens. I'm not going to throw specific names out there but they were a big part of the game for decades. Folks have a tendency to ignore the decades of the '70's and '80's when talking about steroids, they were in the lockerooms back then. There is no one that I feel 100% sure of not using. Clemens I'll group with Bonds but I think the vitriol around Sosa and McGwire has subsided and was never really at the Bonds/Clemens level.

He's 29. He's as much a rookie as Masatake Yoshida. He's three years older than Mountcastle. He did very poorly as a starter and has done better since moving to the pen and changing his pitch usage. He still has issues with his command and his fastball doesn't have much movement. I think he has a good chance to be a solid piece going forward but his lack of command is going to limit his effectiveness.

OK? Steroids have been a thing in MLB since the '70's, speed was even earlier. Surely you don't think the Hall doesn't have other people who used them right? Anyway my point was that various PED users have been forgiven by the community and Bonds hasn't.

Even when the players are the same that data is pretty marginal. Is Gausman today the same guy he was in 2016? Is Verlander? Josh Donaldson finished 4th in the MVP vote in 2016 after winning the year before. He hit .142 this season.

Interesting tangent.

He didn't. He didn't have a TUE in 2014 and still used and got caught and suspended. YOU are the one that was saying he was off of drugs. I'm honestly confused. Did you forget what your point was supposed to be?

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/mlb/news/orioles-chris-davis-granted-exemption-for-adhd-medication-suspension/1y24pzkvkbn7n1lgwg75jyqdkh The only season I've heard of in which Davis didn't have a TUE was 2014.

You aren't doing a very good job of it. What you are doing is ignoring the facts.

This is the big one! This guy. This one:

So you are just going to ignore the fact that Davis was on medication for his decline? Typical.

Hall is in Sarasota. If Wells was pitching in one and two innings stints in Sarasota I'd allow he might be injured. The trainers are professionals who are trained for this sort of thing. They have real time tracking of his velocity and pitch movement. They are probably tracking his mechanics in his bullpens. The technology is worlds beyond where it used to be. Even if Wells was stupid enough to try and pitch when injured I'd think they'd notice.

I still remember the blurb about Finely in the Elias Baseball Analyst. I think his overall career is very..as the kids would say...sus.

Davis' decline happened when he was on "the drugs". One of my biggest wishes is that a current member of the BBHoF would have enough guts to admit they used steroids. Between the roids, HGH, uppers and the painkillers pretty much everybody was, and probably still is, on something. Bonds' issue isn't the steroids, it's his personality. The fans have forgiven plenty of roiders.

The classic player x isn't just playing poorly, he's hiding an injury! Because the team and the trainers are idiots who wouldn't notice.

And if competitor A gets a B value player who cares if we get a 5% discount on a C level player?

So they can trade players to the teams the O's are competing against?

He's a poor defensive second baseman. (by at least one metric literally the worst) Mountcastle swings at a lot of garbage pitches. Pointing out facts isn't bashing.

I was asleep for a lot of it. Does making a play make someone a good fielder?

Were you confused by me saying and/or? He can't field and right now Mateo can't do either.

Right, they should run out vets that can't hit and/or field instead.

I wonder if the Mets can get thier overage down to the next lower level? That'd be something. Not that Cohen can't afford it of course.

Please stand up, please stand up.

That's a bit better for the Mets than it sounds, since they are so far into overage.

Then I'll back you on the rest.

Maybe? I don't know, for me that would be such a momenta difference in value that I'd be hard pressed to come at it from that angle.