oriole

I couldn’t disagree more. Means is coming off an injury and Rodriguez is coming off a season where he was just as terrible as he was good…meaning there’s no telling what we’ll see next year. I feel good about them, but you absolutely cannot count on them without adding at least one more proven and consistent starter, preferably two more. It should be a top starter from FA or trade but it won’t be. A Flaherty/Giolito type is probably what we’re looking at if we’re lucky.

I seem to be in the minority but I’m not too upset he didn’t end up here. Generally, it seems like a bad idea to go after pitchers in their mid-thirties who just came off one of the best seasons of their career. At least, in terms of what kind of value will you get. The O’s obviously shop for hidden value, ex. Gibson, Irvin. I bet Gray won’t have a season as good as 2023 again.

It seems imperative to see how he pitches next year before offering any kind of contract. Sure, if he wants to take a team friendly deal then I’m all for it, but that doesn’t strike me as a possibility.

Not sure why anyone would think Quintana is available. Mets are probably looking to add to their pitching, not subtract from it. With that being said, if he was available then I’d have no problem giving up Urias or Mateo for him. I think it’s more fun to imagine going after a Quintana/Alonso package. Say…Kremer/Urias/Mountcastle? That’s give the Mets some more controllable pieces and the O’s would get some better proven vets on one year deals while we wait to see if Mayo can be the 2025 1B. The reason I’d value “proven vets” over these particular “controllable pieces” is that the lineup is already going to be heavy on rookies. Anyways, that’s a just for fun scenario. Neither the Mets or the O’s would be making moves of that kind.

Okay, so after the shock had worn off that you’re not kidding…I understand what you’re getting at. But this is the Orioles and the Orioles don’t do $36m annually. That’s half the payroll. There’s a million other ways to get the best out of what is available before this would even be considered.

I wouldn’t do it just based on his previous Orioles tenure. I get that he has done much better since then, but he wasn’t just bad here, he was absolutely atrocious.

92 wins every time. 101 is probably the high point, in terms of W-L, for this run. With such a young and unproven team, they could be hanging around .500 and it wouldn’t be surprising whatsoever.

I said in another thread that Santander/Cowser/Westburg could be a good place to start. Maybe we’d have to add in some minor pieces but it’s not going to take Henderson. That’s just silly.

Agree 100%. Kremer is a great 6th starter and he’d get a lot of starts over the course of the season. But there’s room for better so there’s no reason not to do it.

Relievers are more volatile than starters, I just don’t think that should be a spot they put a lot of resources into. My personal take would be to trade for Gilbert from Seattle and sign Montgomery. Gilbert has 3 more years of control and we have the pieces to get him without hurting the big league club too much. Montgomery is very consistent, left handed, and has played in the AL East. He’ll be expensive, but anyone who says the O’s don’t have the room in payroll for it has been suckling the teet of John Angelos’ propaganda machine.

Considering the lack of back end bullpen depth, Wells is better off in the bullpen for 2024. Same goes for Hall. The O’s have more prospects that are ready to make the jump than they have spots available. It’s time to use that depth to get a quality option in the rotation. Someone with control. Not a 1 or 2 year rental.

I think Cowser has more value and would get more back, but I think that’s a better reason to keep him as I believe he will contribute more overall during a potential Orioles tenure than Westburg. Honestly, it ends up as a wash because it could go either way. There’s guys that could take either ones spot if they were traded. Maybe the best move would be to package both. Santander/Westburg/Cowser is a pretty enticing offer for someone like Logan Gilbert. Ortiz could replace Westburg at 3B, Kjerstad in RF, Mayo at DH.

You act like this team doesn’t have a ton of depth in the OF. Kjerstad, Cowser, Norby, McKenna, Haskins, Hilliard, Mayo, Stowers…all better options than O’Hearn in the OF. Of course, very few of those options can hold a candle to Santander, but there’s also some there that can be even better.

If Urias and/or Mateo are retained then I think the chances are pretty close to zero. Not that those players are good enough to block Holliday, but they are a good cushion until he is deemed ready by whatever metric will be used. If Urias and Mateo are both gone over the offseason then I think it’s a toss up between Ortiz and Holliday, but I don’t see it coming to that.

I get kinda stuck on the “pull side power” attribute I’ve read on Mayo. That’s not gonna do much good in Camden Yards, but I don’t know how to verify where he’s been hitting his home runs. I know half the games will be elsewhere, plus everyone can’t be left handed, but Mayo and his rising prospect status screams trade bait for a controllable pitcher to me.

Nice Cowser, very nice

C Rutschman/McCann 1B Mountcastle/O’Hearn 2B Holliday SS Henderson 3B Westburg RF Santander CF Mullins LF Hays DH Kjerstad IF Urias OF McKenna BP Hall, Cano, Wells, Kremer, Irvin, Webb, Tate, Perez (a lot of this is interchangeable with other current BP pieces not listed) SP Rodriguez, Bradish, Means + 2 additions

I was wondering that as well. I hate to say it but I doubt they get to 101 wins again. But I also think there are more talented teams to come. I just expect the Yankees and Red Sox to return to good teams in the near future. And I hope there’s a World Series win (or at least an appearance) in there somewhere.

I said 110 or above because that’s what it should be.

I don’t see the O’s paying up a bunch for a reliever. I know there is no Bautista in 24 but between Cano, Hall, and Wells someone should be able to make the transition to closer. If they’re spending money, I hope it’s a starter.

CF - Bradfield 2B - Ortiz SS - Holliday 1B - Kjerstad 3B - Mayo DH - Basallo LF - Beavers C - Willems RF - Rhodes Just an alternative idea where some current cornerstone players are traded to keep the engine running. Gotta keep the small market O’s at the bottom of the league in payroll and arbitration could be too much to handle for some super stars. Obviously this exercise doesn’t allow me to speculate on how those potential trades would look like.

Is Cease really that good of a pitcher? I feel like Cowser alone should be plenty to get it done. Count me out if it takes any more than that.

Start the year with Ortiz at SS and then reevaluate when Holliday is ready. Since Henderson and Westburg are full time players (at least they should be) then I’d consider Ortiz/Holliday as Rookie 1. Keep Kjerstad on the roster to split DH/RF with Santander. Cowser can be interchangeable here. As currently constructed there doesn’t seem to be room for both Kjerstad and Cowser. That’s Rookie 2. No one else seems imminent enough to worry about. Maybe Mayo? But there’s no position for him without a major shake up. Maybe he could hold down 3B until Holliday makes his way on the roster. But I don’t think we’re going to have to worry about having Ortiz, Mayo, and Holliday all in the lineup at the same time. There’s Norby, but that guy is just SOL in this organization. Who else is there? McDermott and Povich? If at any point in the season they are depending on those guys, something has gone terribly wrong and it doesn’t really matter because they’re probably out of contention anyways.

I’m gonna be honest, there’s absolutely no where for a big bat to be added. The only spots that are anywhere near being open are 1B and CF…if they acquired a good 1B then you’d certainly have to trade Mountcastle/O’Hearn/Mayo. If they got a CF then it’s unlikely they’re going to be a better center fielder than Mullins so the offense has better be significantly better. Pitching is a whole other thing. If they made a single trade/signing this offseason and it was for a top starter, I’d call it a wildly successful offseason. But that’s not what we’ll get…Irvin level moves is the best we can expect realistically.

No way in a million years do I expect two top starters. I suggested Montgomery and Gilbert as my pipe dream acquisitions and they’re middle of the pack type of guys. I expect much less in reality. Even though, it’s very easy to see how throwing some money at a free agent when the payroll is so low and throwing prospects at a team for a controllable young starter are very achievable tasks. I feel like a Yankee move would be to sign Ohtani and have him take Means spot in the rotation after 2024. I’ll admit, I forgot about Irvin. He’s a good 6th starter option too.