oriole

I’m afraid Frazier was the “hitter you can put in the lineup every day” that Elias spoke of and Gibson is the #3 that was promised.

Let’s make it more interesting, because Bemboom and cash is boring. Make the pretend deal McCann, Carassco, and Baty for Urias and Vavra. It’s just way more fun to fill in all the blanks in one move.

How could I forget?! He tore it up at Norfolk when he was sent down so he’ll undoubtedly carry that momentum!

Let’s trade from the one position where there is absolutely no depth outside of Ryan McKenna! Sounds like a great idea Maybe once we see how Cowser does against major league pitching then trading Mullins could make sense. But that’s far from a sure thing

You know, I thought Hosmer had a good defensive reputation but after looking at some of the Advanced Fielding stats on Fangraphs, it looks like even Mountcastle is better. If he’s not better defensively and he’s not better offensively and the only thing he brings to the table is that he hits from the left then that’s not really someone that I feel like is an actual asset in any way. I hope this doesn’t happen

“Interest in…” is hopefully a ploy to put pressure on agents or GMs for players that they’re actually interested in. Because Wacha and Hill ain’t it…give me Watkins or Voth before these guys

I think I’d rather have Lewin Diaz be the no-hit lefty defensive backup 1B

I don’t think he’ll have a strict platoon partner. He’d be a good guy to move around quite a bit and keep a lefty bat in the lineup while giving guys a day off. Between Urias at 2B, Mateo at SS, and Hays in LF there will be always be righty to supplant when it makes sense. Also, I know he won’t be play SS but he could play 3B on days he replaces Mateo and Henderson can move to SS for the day.

So far it’s been pretty…uninspiring. But there is plenty of time left to actually improve the club. I think a poll halfway through December is more of an excuse to complain than an actual statement. I may as well oblige…Ive been getting a lot of practice lately. Here’s the good so far…no stupid contracts, Frazier and Gibson are slightly better than Odor and Lyles, and most (or all I don’t remember whose even left) of the top tier guys are gone meaning we can all stop hand wringing about how we’ve got the money to sign one so why don’t we just do it. I’m certainly guilty of this The bad? They’ve seemed to alter the direction a bit and I don’t think that spending much money is going to happen…at any point in time. I don’t know what I was thinking but I thought when the time we right, they’d jump in and make some difference making moves. Well, the time is right and we get the pleasure of watching our awesome young talent play along side some of the most mediocre free agents that were available. And even though it’s only Dec 15, I think we’re all aware that whatever the next moves are won’t be much better than what we’ve seen. We’re charting a path to 4th or 5th in the division.

We both know he’ll be traded by the time he reaches free agency. We’re going to be the Rays, remember?!

Elias going for the incremental improvements. Gibson is a little bit better than Lyles. Frazier is a little bit better than Odor. He’s charting a path to the 3rd wild card! Can’t you see?!?

I guess it’s a matter of interpretation. I’ve read the same quotes from Elias that you have. Comparing his comments from early offseason to Winter Meetings and beyond then I’m sure you can understand why people think that his plans may have changed. And by his plans, I mean the freedom to spend which I don’t believe to be solely dictated by what Elias wants, but by what the owners want. Bassitt, Verlander…these are exactly the type of deals I’d have been happy to see the O’s make.

Let’s unpack that a little…it seems to me like you’re saying that by keeping pay roll low now, then the teams in 2-3 years will benefit from it. I hear you and I recognize that a lot of free agent contracts have a tendency to be dead weight towards the back end of the deal. What I feel that you’re not considering is that the front end of the deal would make the 2023 team better. It’s a balancing act and I would like to mention that I am happy the O’s did not do the DeGrom or Correa deals. You don’t need to be stupid with the money. But Gibson or Wacha on Opening Day is also a situation where you’re leaning hard on the “lightning in a bottle” approach. That was fine when there was no expectations but this is year one of the competitive window. There is almost nothing on the books past 2023. There is a lot of room in the pay roll to even get to the average pay roll size in baseball.

Are you sure about that? Because you seem really sure. Being the division favorite on paper is subjective and always going to be difficult in the AL East. Prematurely writing us off is an excuse, not a reason. Not now. My interpretation is that he is is justifying why spending a bunch of money right now would be unwise. I think that’s flat out wrong at this juncture. There is young, cheap, controllable, and most importantly good talent on the major league roster or extremely close. When you’re working with a payroll that is almost as minimal as it can possibly get and still refusing to make a reasonable financial commitment then it says more about the organizations bottom line than anything.

The dude has gone from talking about “lift off” “significantly escalating pay roll” “looking for mid-rotation starters” to saying “it’s difficult to chart a path to the division”. Guess what? It’s not that difficult to chart a path to the division if you spend some money. This team has great bones to it, the time to add some meat to them bones has come. We’re not crazy for interpreting some of his comments in such a way that we thought significant additions were on the way. He has, very obviously, backed down on that.

Yes, it’s premature but it’s also very predictable at this point. Elias made it very clear towards the start of the offseason that a mid-tier starter was in the cards. I’m sorry, but both Gibson and Wacha are back end guys and the upside for them is limited. Elias made the mistake of giving fans expectations and the Winter Meetings were sobering, not only for us fans but it really seems like for Elias too. I don’t think he’d have used the language he did late in the season and early offseason if he believed Wacha would be our Opening Day starter. Something changed. The insane inflation of free agents could be it, but he’s a smart guy and probably should have predicted that the first normal off season in a while would be a bit pricey. The only other sensible option is that the owners have changed their mind as to what kind of product they want on the field. They can still make money coming in 4th and using a bottom of the league payroll and it’s far less risky from a business standpoint. It’s not unfair to assume that John is clutching the purse strings and thinking he’d really like that 4th mansion or whatever the ultra wealthy do with their money.

All the back and forth about pay roll and saying they’re going to do one thing and then reframing it and then lowering expectations and then kicking the can down the road and acting like “one day, you’ll see!” when really it’s the whole horse being led by a carrot on a stick thing….its exhausting and it’s really undoing any positive vibes I had about this era of Orioles baseball. It’s apparent that any mention of a larger payroll is a flat out lie and meant to keep fans engaged with the team long enough so the owners kids can rake in more cash to run away with once they have the opportunity. This team could have a significantly increased pay roll in 2023 and they could chart a path to the division. They are choosing not to.

We’re a little…empty at the top and middle? By far the lowest floor and the ceiling isn’t all that high either outside of one guy who hasn’t ever pitched in the majors.

Elias has got to be looking for a way out at this point. He has built the organization into something special from almost nothing and once it’s time to make that step, there is no green light. I have a hard time being mad at how Elias is handling this. I feel like he may have been under the impression that he could make some moves but it feels pretty obvious that ownership has somehow nixed that. The type of language that Elias has used since the Winter Meetings sounds like damage control. I can’t imagine someone in his position doesn’t realize that now is literally the best time to spend. Either that or he is an idiot and I don’t believe that for a second. It’ll be interesting to see what he does with the next club he works with, assuming they aren’t cheap liars like O’s ownership.

The issue is they don’t seem to be interested in going high end on anything whatsoever.

Manaea represented the best possible option that the O’s may end up with. This team is unbelievably cheap. Im disappointed they couldn’t beat that offer. He’d have done well in the new dimensions I think

Content creators gotta create content even if it’s completely useless

Considering a corner OF lefty is on the wish list I think the Yoshida contract could’ve been beaten. Make it an even $20m over 5 years and I think he’d have been an Oriole. Clevinger has more upside than Gibson and would have preferred spending a couple extra million to roll the dice a bit with him. Gibson isn’t necessarily bad but there’s little chance of him being any more than a back end guy. Josh Bell is a clear upgrade at 1B and that contract isn’t bad at all. Mountcastle is obviously on Elias’ shit list and Bell is a much better candidate than Diaz or Cordero.

You could get a lesser LHP to have greater success than a better RHP due to the ballpark they’ll play in for half their starts. Manaea would be a good example since he is pretty solid at getting LHH but struggled vs righties. Not saying Manaea is the best pitcher they could get but when you compare the type of contract he’ll get with what someone like Bassitt will end up getting, then I’d bet you’re getting more value.

So then we’re picking the last 2-3 years of Adley’s time with the O’s as the time when we want to see big signings? The window is open now. We can’t assume Adley will be extended, if we’re all being honest with ourselves I think we all know he won’t be extended. At least we should all be in ‘believe it when I see it’ mode. So that means we’ve got 5 more years with a crazy good talent. Use those 5 years and don’t make excuses for the club as to why they should keep kicking the can down the road. There’s always going to be a reason to hold back. I think you’re right that Rodon for 7 years is a hard pass. I’m not saying they need to be stupid. I’m saying they should target the players that can push this team into true competitor status and make it happen. This includes trading for the right guys too. I’m arguing that pay roll should be significantly increased and they should start taking some risks. Again, not stupid like 7 years for Rodon. But I don’t see why the O’s couldn’t have signed Yoshida if they wanted a lefty corner outfielder slugger. They have the pieces to make a Reynolds trade happen. I don’t really want to go down the list of potential moves but sitting on your hands and signing Cordero is not the way to do it. Not when they’re as close to being legit as they are right now. I’m just flabbergasted at the audacity of the organization to be so vehemently risk adverse when they’re currently in a position where they have no other significant contracts on the books in the near future.