oriole

DeGrom is a really good pitcher. But he is often injured. I’d pass assuming the money can be spent on another pitcher or two

I’m not advocating for trading him. I’m indifferent ultimately, but my whole point was leaning towards not trading anyone. That list was just infield depth in the system that you could potentially trade from without creating a position of need. Holliday would be at the top of the list in value.

I’m not advocating for trading him. I’m indifferent ultimately, but my whole point was leaning towards not trading anyone. That list was just infield depth in the system that you could potentially trade from without creating a position of need. Holliday would be at the top of the list in value.

Haha, long term depth. Having someone like Holliday around will probably keep Elias from going after a long contract at SS.

Westburg, Holliday, Norby, Ortiz, Prieto, Hernaiz, even Mayo though I think he’ll end up at 1B…all depth that I think they can comfortably trade from. But when you start packaging these guys with Hall or Cowser for a couple of years of a single player…that’s where I feel like it’s an overpay.

I don’t believe the bullpen will be an issue. But it is worth noting that most of the players you’ve listed don’t have a track record of success. The chance that the Orioles played over their heads in 2022 is always there and if the window of contention was coming to a close rather than just opening then it would make sense to me to go all in and trade away everyone you’ve got for a chance at a WS. Luckily, the O’s are on the opposite end of that spectrum and have no pressing need to give up competitiveness a few years down the road for a chance next year. I feel I should reiterate though, I’m not at all against trading prospects right now. But the OP suggestions are too high IMO

I’d rather the Orioles function more like the Astros than the Padres, but that’s just me I guess. Not that one is inherently better or worse, like I said…it’s all subjective. But right now there is a lot of room in the payroll to add players. What is purpose of trading away future talent for proven talent when you can just buy the proven talent now and keep the future? If someone like Bieber cost something like Hall, Rom, and Urias then I feel like it might be worth the future sacrifice of one top prospect plus a redundant major league piece and a lower prospect. But Holliday and Hall packaged together really needs more than two years from one player.

100%? That’s pretty bold considering we’re literally talking about giving up multiple high end prospects with little to no major league service time for two years of a proven player. You can debate the merits of both approaches all day, but “100% false” is about as hyperbolic as it comes.

I’m okay with trading from the infield prospect depth, but other than that it’s pretty even across the board. There may be some surplus in the OF also, depending on Kjerstad and Stowers. But right now Kjerstad and Stowers don’t have much value and I really don’t want to let go of Cowser. Anyways, I guess it’s just subjective on whether you value the long term outlook or the short term more highly. I’d like to see the approach of trading the major league pieces that are more expensive and closer to free agency, let the prospects play in Baltimore, and finish it off with some strong free agency signings. Trade Santander this year, maybe Mullins, Urias, and Mountcastle the following year or two. Let Cowser, Henderson, and Mayo take their spots which leaves more room on the payroll for a bit signing when the need arises. Right now the need is front line pitching. Keep the prospects and just sign one of the many very good options on the market.

Yeah, from Mountcastle perspective this is a possibility. But from a team standpoint, it’d be good to be in a position that you can back off from depending on him to be that middle of the order bat that we all had hoped he’d be. He’d have led the team in OPS+ last year. The shift ban will only help his hitting. And he’s a better defender than Mountcastle.

I think we’ve got to let 2023 play out a while before any of us can make that determination. The bullpen advances last year could be a mirage. Rutschman could have the dreaded sophomore slump. I’m not saying I don’t think they’ll be a contender, because I do. I’m saying it’s not a great idea to start trading away great prospects just for the opportunity to have any player for such a short amount of time when the O’s are still in the infancy stage of contention.

Would I be crazy for thinking it’s a legitimate possibility? The shift has been a vacuum for years. I can’t say anything definitively obviously but I’m expecting it to be significant.

Obviously the answer is sign Rizzo to play 1B and move Mountcastle to DH. That gives the defense a boost, balances the lineup a bit, and takes some pressure off Mountcastle…both from his perspective and managements need to count on a guy who just keeps getting worse every year who also plays a position where offensive output is kind of a necessity. Imagine a top 5 of the lineup like Mullins Rutschman Rizzo Mountcastle Henderson Even if Mountcastle continues his downward trend then there’s other players that could step into that spot in the lineup.

I feel like it is very common to see a left handed hitter hit into the shift. Without the shift, those turn into hits. This seems like it’s going to make an enormous difference. Chris Davis is probably planning his come back as we speak.

Bieber wasn’t in the OP and he’s not a mid-rotation guy. He only has a couple years til free agency though and that makes it really hard to justify giving up 6 years each of Holliday and Hall, plus more probably. Especially when it’s still debatable at this point whether the O’s are even a legit contender next year. I think if they’re to have any sustained success then it will be from a strong and deep farm. Trading away all your top guys for mere blips in the timeline of a hopeful contention window is short sighted. I’d love to have any of the pitching that’s been mentioned in this thread but not at the costs that I’m seeing discussed. There’s room in the payroll for a $30m+ annual salary for an ace.

I have a hard time accepting that we’d need to give up 6 years of guys like Holliday and/or Hall for a couple years of a mid-rotation starter. If that’s the price, then just dive into free agency for the impact guys and trade from the positional surplus for lesser needs or depth. Santander or Urias are two guys that I feel like should get someone like Lopez, but if they don’t then I don’t want Lopez. None of the trades in the OP would be a win for the O’s IMO. There’s too much room in the payroll to sign players to give up the future for such a short sighted approach.

Can’t argue the numbers. I just didn’t see it coming

This is perplexing but okay. I knew he was a decent 3B but GG seems wild, especially considering Mateo wasn’t even a finalist at his position. It’ll be interesting to see how Urias is used next year. I’ve been assuming he is moved to 2B with Henderson taking over 3B. But Henderson also played a bit of 2B…my gut says it’s better for a player to stick at one position than move around every night, but I don’t know if that’s true. Seems like a lot of movement is in the works. Especially considering Urias and Henderson also play SS and Mateo can’t hit. Then you’ve got multiple good SS prospects in the high minors…good problem to have. And I never would have considered Urias as a GG as being part of that problem.

I have recently decided that I want the O’s to sign Rizzo and push Mountcastle to DH. Can you imagine an infield defense of all GG-caliber players? That’s assuming Urias is a good 2B. Plus, it’s probably a good idea to load up on left handed hitters since the shift is a thing of the past. Still too early to give up on Mountcastle but he’s never been a great fielder so along with his sub-par offense, he is pretty replaceable.

What’s fun about that site is that according to them, we could trade for Ohtani, Trout, Sandoval, Detmers, and Rendon for Joey Ortiz and technically, we’d be the ones over paying.

Bautista Tate Perez Akin Vespi Baker Voth Wells Hall The last three guys can make spot starts as needed but I think a couple outside additions to the rotation, Rodriguez, Kremer, and Bradish would have the inside track. My outlook on Hall has dimmed quite significantly…it almost feels like we replaced Tanner Scott with a more hyped up version of Tanner Scott. Loads of potential but until he can show control, there’s no reason to believe it’ll happen. I’m a see it to believe it kinda guy.

Should’ve traded him when they had the chance

He was at DH for about 20% of his games played. He can’t catch every game and he is arguably the best hitter on the team. That’s not insignificant, especially if you’re considering signing a full time DH for over $15m per year.

I’d rather keep the DH open for flexibility than sign a strict DH bat, but if he was on the team I wouldn’t be too upset. I think the offense has a lot of potential next year and it’s the lack of pitching depth that is going to be an issue unless a couple more proven guys are brought in. Abreu would be more of an accompanying piece in a successful offseason, and an unnecessary one at that. Another right handed bat isn’t exactly the greatest need in the lineup…but you know, he can hit. So, it’d be uninspiring move but an addition nonetheless.

Lyles at $11m is wild. I don’t see it happening. Maybe decline the option and re-sign him to something like 2/14. I’d rather see a high end starter signed while filling the rest of the rotation out in-house and via trade than signing any middling FA starters. Voth being non-tendered would also be wild. He almost immediately turned a corner as soon as the O’s got hands on him. I’d love to see him as a spot starter/long relief option.