ThisIsBirdland

It’s a good article. It fully explains the nuances of the decision and covers the entirety of Matt Holliday’s position, wherein he questions whether service time considerations were part of the decision. At no point does it ever editorialize Holliday’s position or suggest he’s unhappy. That was entirely the OP. To everyone crusading against the article as some sort of media hit job, please read it before engaging in an uninformed pile on. If you’ve read it and think I’ve mischaracterized it please let me know.

Not all billionaires are as emotionally needy as the ones who we see constantly putting themselves in the limelight. Plenty of them are savvy/wise enough to know where their strengths and weaknesses are, and build organizations accordingly. Rubenstein’s initial comments and professional track record would suggest that’s the case with him.

Rubenstein’s comments to multiple press outlets today all spoke of “supporting Elias” in the direction he would propose taking the franchise. I think his attitude and comments are enough for me to feel confident he’ll invest to a level most of us would be satisfied with (middle of the pack, +/- $160m/year) if Elias advocates for the moves.

This fanbase basically runs on a FanGraphs inferiority complex though. Not sure people will know what to do with themselves.

Starting to see some movement. I hope a decision is possible tonight. NY has sustained 65% chance of rain into the evening though.

How do we feel about these terms as a comp for Adley?

It was uncharacteristically atrocious PR on Elias’ part; I’ve said so in other threads. Their post AAA demotion comments mirror what they’ve said about all prospects and mastering AAA for years, that’s all I’m saying. Maybe it’s all BS, or maybe they believe it on some level and in combination with the service time benefits, it was in their opinion the appropriate move for them to make. When the poll on how we as fans would react if JH was sent down was put out a month ago, I didn’t like that it lacked an option along the lines of “as a fan I don’t like the decision, but I understand and accept it may be right for the long term interests of the team.” That remains my take.

I went back and listened to the Q&A you referenced. Interestingly, the next question was in regards to their process for promoting players from the minors. Her answer one year ago mirrored exactly what they’re saying now about Holliday. Service time absolutely plays some role in all of this, it’d be naive to think otherwise. But they also genuinely seem to believe as an organization that “mastering” AAA matters more than other organizations treat it. I understand the cynicism many have but I do think there’s at least some genuine belief by the team that this is best for Hollidays development. He may not see good LHP in AAA, but with the way Hyde manages, he would see NO LHP in Baltimore. The whole interview seems worth checking out. Little outdated of course.

Please, please do not derail this thread.

If Elias believes in extensions I believe we’re going to see extensions.

Let’s all take a sec and enjoy the moment for a minute. We’ve been waiting a long time for something like this.

FYI. I don’t have a subscription so it’s behind paywall for me. Not sure how much he covers.

So, Thursday?

Just pretty sad that we’ve gotten the lip service that the Os have been “in” on some of the quality pitchers for the last two offseasons, and yet they couldn’t match or slightly exceed this. Maybe I’ll look hard for the bright side and hope it indicates they’re bullish on Bradish and Means’ chances of meaningfully contributing this year. Kudos to Arizona. They’re locking up their young guys and augmenting their young talented team with legitimate pieces.

Ugh that’s rough. Seems pretty damn reasonable.

Sure but I’m concerned they’re of the mind that any deal would have to be such a no brainer for him to forego free agency that it’s not really likely. Corbin Burnes I’m sure would sign with Milwaukee or Baltimore for 8/$320m, and as such he’s not being disingenuous when he says he’s open to an extension. I think Matt just used it as a valid argument that IF Jackson was signed he’d likely be on the team. But the fact that he more or less chalked up the Os position as all being part of “the game” kind of tells me he’s very comfortable with leveraging the player’s self interest element of “the game” as well. I’ll be the first to say I may be reading too much into this though.

I don’t think I follow. Is there any doubt that Holliday would sign an extension, if the Os offered him a very strong, probably record breaking deal? He’s pretty much being discussed as a generational prospect pretty broadly right now.

Not sure if this was posted anywhere else this evening.

I think he’d drop the Corbin Burnes line saying of course he’s open to an extension but he also believes in his own ability to pursue the benefits and control that free agency allows. Honestly, Matt’s apparent understanding that neither side in these instances is “wrong” to pursue their self interest, plus the fact that Jackson is represented by Boras, paint a pretty clear picture on the hurdle that will need to be cleared to reach an early extension. Not impossible I imagine, but probably not too easy.

There are plenty of legitimate cases of poor or misleading media out there. Being upset that a headline refers to this as “questioning” isn’t one of them IMO.

Not sure what headline you could choose that would better describe the way he philosophically discussed the decision. I guess he was answering several questions as opposed to raising the issue itself, but he certainly implied service time was involved.

The Banner article pretty well captures the nuanced take Holliday presented IMO. He acknowledges disappointment, but spins it positively as a growth opportunity for his son. He also discusses the business realities and people naturally watching out for their best interests, but he refrains from directly calling it service time manipulation, even though he implies that it’s obviously a part of this. The subject title of this thread feels more misleading than the article itself.

To be fair, they both appear to kind of suck.