Miguel Gonzalez Appreciation Tread

[tntoriole]

7 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Look at it from DD's point of view before the season started,

• Miggy looked terrible in ST and Buck's postgame interview after his last ST start was really a negative outlook on Miggy's performance.  
• He was due like $4 million if we didn't DFA him, even if we just sent him to the minors.  
• We had just signed Gallardo and were starting to immediately regret that because of the injury.  
• We tendered Matusz for a $4 million contract while DD was flirting with TOR.  
• Ubaldo. 

We couldn't risk keeping Miggy at mid 80's and losing all of our payroll flexibility to make moves during the season.  

How much did it really hurt us?  We still made the playoffs in the toughest division in baseball and we're 12-5 this year.  It would be nice to have Miggy, but we're looking pretty good without him.  

 

Except that DD chose Tyler Wilson and Mike Wright as starting rotation pieces which cost us who knows how many games...and then Ubaldo was so terrible to start the season, but DD had to wait on Gallardo coming back in order to finally move Ubaldo out of the rotation to find his mechanics...again.  Meanwhile I suspect that if Miggy had been in the mix in 2016, we likely would have obtained the 1-4 more wins to put us either in the wildcard directly or even won the division.

And this year, we will see whether Miggy does better than our 4 or 5 slot.

I still think the decision was wrong at the time in a year when we were trying to win a pennant.  I don't jettison a veteran starter for Tyler and Wright just to save 4 million if I am trying to win a pennant that year. 

 

It is all water under the bridge, just like not having Arrieta, EdRod, Hader and the others, but it was not a move I agreed with then.  I understood why DD did it, I just disagree that it was a good decision. 

[Matt Bennett]

On 4/22/2017 at 2:47 PM, OFFNY said:

o

 

People may be wanting  to blow off some steam because of the condition of the Orioles' starting pitching as of late.

 

o

Our SP has not been good. Better than last year. But still not good. 

[Matt Bennett]

On 4/22/2017 at 8:32 PM, Dark Helmet said:

Then we're even. Because I'm not sure what your point is either.

1) Just because DD got him for nothing doesn't mean he gets a free pass when he lets him go for nothing

2) I thought it was a neat comparison, I'm not sure many people would have pegged Miguel Gonzalez to have been better than Chris Tillman.

3) Does it say Tillman is over-rated or Gonzalez is under-rated? What really gets me is that both had equally bad years in 2015, yet Tillman was kept at $6 mil without flinching whereas Gonzalez was deemed too expensive at $4 mil. Don't throw peripherals at me because Tillman is only slightly better in that regard. And please for the love of god don't mention spring training stats to me. I don't understand the move now and I didn't understand the move then. 

4) Because DD seems to have a fascination with giving away good starting pitchers, when SP has been the one thing holding Baltimore back from being a truly elite team. 

[OFFNY]

On 4/22/2017 at 2:38 PM, maybenxtyr said:

Other than trying to get some anger going...what is the point of this? The people that were glad about him getting released were few and far between. 

 

On 4/22/2017 at 2:47 PM, OFFNY said:

o

 

People may be wanting  to blow off some steam because of the condition of the Orioles' starting pitching as of late.

 

o

 

11 minutes ago, Matt Bennett said:

o

Our SP has not been good.

Better than last year. But still not good. 

o

o

 

Excuse me, I made that post 2 days ago, which was 2 games ago ...... and at that point, our starting pitching had been that good, considerably better than last year. If it had not been that good in the Orioles first 16 games of the season, they would not have gotten off to the 12-4 start that they did.

 

Now that they have had back-to-back clunkers, you conveniently come along and quote my post from 48 hours ago. Why did you not quote me then?

 

o

[Matt Bennett]

Just now, OFFNY said:

 

 

o

 

Excuse me, I made that post 2 days ago, which was 2 games ago ...... and at that point, our starting pitching had been that good, considerably better than last year. If it had not been that good in the Orioles first 16 games of the season, they would not have gotten off to the 12-4 start that they did.

 

Now that they have had back-to-back clunkers, you conveniently come along and quote my post from 48 hours ago. Good for you.

Ah, I did not realize. I hadn't logged on in a couple days. My apologies. 

[OFFNY]

Just now, Matt Bennett said:

 

Ah, I did not realize. I hadn't logged on in a couple days. My apologies. 

 

 

 

No problem.

 

 

[Frobby]

18 minutes ago, Matt Bennett said:

Our SP has not been good. Better than last year. But still not good. 

It's been very solid.   Not the last two days, though.  

[tntoriole]

Yes and Miggy goes 8 innings...2 hits , 0 ER...but, hey, he was finished.   

DD said so. 

[MDtransplant757]

8 hours ago, LookitsPuck said:

It was asinine. We signed an injured Gallardo, yet couldn't keep a $4m starter with an option? It was irresponsible.

Injured Gonzalez was awful too, and while he's been what he was with us; at the time he looked awful. Paying Miguel $4 million to fart around in AAA, good god we'd be SCREAMING at DD for doing that. 

[MDtransplant757]

he's a FA this offseason. I'd take a flyer on him for about 2/16

[Dark Helmet]

9 hours ago, Matt Bennett said:

1) Just because DD got him for nothing doesn't mean he gets a free pass when he lets him go for nothing

2) I thought it was a neat comparison, I'm not sure many people would have pegged Miguel Gonzalez to have been better than Chris Tillman.

3) Does it say Tillman is over-rated or Gonzalez is under-rated? What really gets me is that both had equally bad years in 2015, yet Tillman was kept at $6 mil without flinching whereas Gonzalez was deemed too expensive at $4 mil. Don't throw peripherals at me because Tillman is only slightly better in that regard. And please for the love of god don't mention spring training stats to me. I don't understand the move now and I didn't understand the move then. 

4) Because DD seems to have a fascination with giving away good starting pitchers, when SP has been the one thing holding Baltimore back from being a truly elite team. 

They kept Tillman because he had a bad year at 26 after having 3 straight good years. You don't cut those players. Do you suggest they cut Gausman now?

If your going to harp on something, harp on him replacing Gonzalez with guys like Gallardo. Tillman really has nothing to do with Miguel Gonzalez.

[sportsfan8703]

17 hours ago, LookitsPuck said:

It was asinine. We signed an injured Gallardo, yet couldn't keep a $4m starter with an option? It was irresponsible.

Look at the situation. We had just carried a hurt Norris the year before for $10 million dollars. Tillman was coming off an injury plagued year. Matusz was tendered , not by DD, for $4 million. Gallardo was having shoulder injections at the beginning of a 2 year, freshly signed deal. Ubaldo being Ubaldo. Also, we picked up Worley for a couple million to be the swing guy/innings eater.

There was no role for Miggy.  I like the guy but someone had to go.  He was topping out at 85 in late ST and had just been pounded by a ST lineup.  He could go cheaply so he did.  

I'll root for the guy, but we're alright without him. 

What happened to the Miranda and Davies threads?  Is it because they are struggling and Miley has been a beast?  What about that Miley trade?  

 

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Look at the situation. We had just carried a hurt Norris the year before for $10 million dollars. Tillman was coming off an injury plagued year. Matusz was tendered , not by DD, for $4 million. Gallardo was having shoulder injections at the beginning of a 2 year, freshly signed deal. Ubaldo being Ubaldo. Also, we picked up Worley for a couple million to be the swing guy/innings eater.

There was no role for Miggy.  I like the guy but someone had to go.  He was topping out at 85 in late ST and had just been pounded by a ST lineup.  He could go cheaply so he did.  

I'll root for the guy, but we're alright without him. 

What happened to the Miranda and Davies threads?  Is it because they are struggling and Miley has been a beast?  What about that Miley trade?  

 

Seems to me the fact that Tillman hadn't been that good in 2015 and that Gallardo was having shoulder issues was a reason to have more depth, not less.    

I think there were only a handful of people who really criticized the Miley trade when it was made.    That's a much different trade than the Davies for Parra trade, for three reasons:

1.    Miley had another season plus an option on his contract, while Parra was a pending free agent.

2.   The team was in a better position to make the playoffs.

3.   Davies was a more highly regarded prospect than Miranda.   

 

[SilverRocket]

When did he get this pitch?!

 

 

[MDtransplant757]

7 hours ago, Frobby said:

Seems to me the fact that Tillman hadn't been that good in 2015 and that Gallardo was having shoulder issues was a reason to have more depth, not less.    

I think there were only a handful of people who really criticized the Miley trade when it was made.    That's a much different trade than the Davies for Parra trade, for three reasons:

1.    Miley had another season plus an option on his contract, while Parra was a pending free agent.

2.   The team was in a better position to make the playoffs.

3.   Davies was a more highly regarded prospect than Miranda.   

 

Davies isn't really all that and a bag of chips. I was never impressed with his stuff when I saw him in Norfolk