MLB Bans Rookie Hazing

[epic]

5 hours ago, StottyByNature said:

Is it fun, though?  Perhaps it is fun for the veterans.  There is a very fine line when it comes to hazing, and it is the line between having fun and intimidation/bullying.  I have been "good hazed" and "bad hazed" before.  I would happily give up the experiences of the good hazing to have never been subjected to the bad hazing.  I think the public hazing that we see is probably OK, but it only takes a few tormentors to take it to another level (and which would probably never be made public.)  I think this is a good rule.  

I have been good hazed and bad hazed as well. But like you mentioned, this isn't anywhere close to bad hazing. This is having some of your teammates dress up in funny costumes for a couple of hours. If this were only being done to a single guy on the team I could see how this would be a little embarrassing but there are usually a handful of guys doing it with you. I would bet an overwhelming majority of the rookies have fun with it.

 

I don't know... I'm not outraged by them banning it or anything but it seems like they're taking control of something that isn't in their jurisdiction. This is also probably being done after the hazing incident from the Dominican League (or something along those lines) leaked a little while back.

[Tony-OH]

Aubrey Huff clearly doesn't like MLB getting involved, this is from his Facebook: "This whole deal in MLB about banning rookies from dressing up like women is so ridiculous! It happened to me. It happened to countless many others in this games great tradition. It's not hazing, it's not harassment. It's a simple gesture of welcoming rookies to the show. 99 percent of the rookies love it, and take no disrespect in it. It amazes me all the people that have never set foot in a MLB clubhouse think this is cruel to the rookies, and demeaning to women! Please just save it! Playing professional sports carries a lot of pressure, and this ritual of dressing up the rookies was always a fun tradition all the way around. Thanks for ruining that tradition, all you sensitive snowflake millennials who are ruining not only the world, but now professional sports with your everybody gets a trophy crap! Rant over."

[Superbee83]

7 hours ago, PaulFolk said:

It's not just "the suits." I think plenty of players are in favor of this change, too, including most of the Orioles. See the quotes from Tyler Wilson and Brady Anderson here: http://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roch/2016/12/leftovers-for-breakfast-56.html

I think Wilson put it pretty well: "I think that the whole hazing process is, why would we make it any more difficult for a rookie or somebody that’s just coming in the league, why would we make that transition any more difficult? They’re part of the team, we’re all in it together and we have the same unified cause, so any type of hazing or negligence toward respecting the other person, I don’t think that’s going to be a problem for our organization."

Do you think most players want to see pictures of themselves on social media being forced to wear silly costumes? I wouldn't be surprised if the players were the ones pushing for this ban. 

And FYI, the ban doesn't apply to all costumes -- only offensive ones. So you could still force someone to dress as, say, Captain America if it was that important to you. 

    I think that MLB was in a position where they had to take a stance on the hazing. The pictures of these guys are all over 

    social media and the organization can't condone what some may perceive as bullying and or offensive.Further,

    as someone who has been on the back end of hazing ( Boy Scout Camp when I was twelve, bad experience, one

    of the reasons I quit scouts. Freshman year of college, good experience, all of the freshman baseball players had to

    chew tobacco after practice, and I enjoyed it so much it became a part of my practice/game routine.) 

    Overall, I agree with Wilson's sentiment, I don;t see the point in humiliating someone in order to bond with them. 

    It's one thing to bring the veteran's coffee to the bullpen, it;s quite another to have the same player dress as a 

    woman or to wear a penis costume on a charter flight. ( Yeah, I personall thought the penis costume was funny,

    but I would not like my nine year old granddaughter to see it.)

 

    

[PaulFolk]

18 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

I made up the number obviously and of course it's an exaggeration. There are always going to be outliers like Alderson or the wet sock guy who doesn't like it, but I think most see the fun of it. I just find it ridiculous that MLB would have to ban it. What's next, will they ban putting gum on the top of hats or throwing sunflower seeds at players in celebration? Where does this end? If it undercuts the morale of any player, you should immediately get rid of the that snowflake because he'll probably crack in pressure situations as well.

I think this is the kind of sentiment MLB is hoping to end with the ban -- the idea that a player should be ostracized or looked upon as a lesser person/player if he isn't comfortable being hazed. Also, I don't think there's any evidence that a player who doesn't like being hazed is a "snowflake" who will crack under pressure. Brady Anderson hated hazing and he put together a nice long career for himself.

Mainly I agree with the Jesse Spector quote that Great8 posted -- a big problem is that the hazing has become broadcast to the world because of social media. It's one thing if it's meant to be harmless fun between teammates in the privacy of the locker room, but once pictures are plastered everywhere of a player wearing a penis costume or dressed like a Hooters girl, it's a whole different ballgame. I can't imagine that a lot of players are thrilled with having their pictures out there like that.

[El Gordo]

20 hours ago, Great8 said:

I'll speak up as a female fan, and I'll actually let former Sporting News reporter Jesse Spector say it for me, because he's spot on. From his Twitter:

 

That's basically it. When these guys are hazed, and part of that hazing is dressing up as women, as Jesse said, women are being shown as "lesser." Maybe as guys you don't or even can't get that, but to a lot of women, that's not OK. I buy tickets, I pay for the MLB app, I have cable mainly so I can watch the O's, and I'm sure I'm not alone. It comes down to the fact that MLB doesn't want to alienate any current or potential customers. As always, it's about the bottom line.

I agree with this. Origins of hazing:

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, PaulFolk said:

I think this is the kind of sentiment MLB is hoping to end with the ban -- the idea that a player should be ostracized or looked upon as a lesser person/player if he isn't comfortable being hazed. Also, I don't think there's any evidence that a player who doesn't like being hazed is a "snowflake" who will crack under pressure. Brady Anderson hated hazing and he put together a nice long career for himself.

Mainly I agree with the Jesse Spector quote that Great8 posted -- a big problem is that the hazing has become broadcast to the world because of social media. It's one thing if it's meant to be harmless fun between teammates in the privacy of the locker room, but once pictures are plastered everywhere of a player wearing a penis costume or dressed like a Hooters girl, it's a whole different ballgame. I can't imagine that a lot of players are thrilled with having their pictures out there like that.

I have little doubt you think that way, it's the way a group of people in this country think. I'm not going to get into politics here, but I'll just say that the men who are traumatized by these things are in the minority. And yes, if I have a guy in my locker room who can't handle some fun with his teammates, then I wouldn't want him as part of my locker room. If the pressure of wearing a dress is too much, then that says something about the makeup in my mind. 

I will say though dressing a guy up like a penis and making him go out in public is not right. That is demeaning and vulgar, and there's no reason for that to happen. Honestly, I don't have a huge problem with keeping it in house and not for the public. Overall though, I believe each team's manager can make these decisions based on his personnel in his club. It doesn't need regulation from MLB.
 

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, Stevie Janowski said:

And, in the instances of players dressing as women, extremely misogynistic. 

 

Good Grief!

Misogynistic is good for describing a dislike or hatred of women, or a deep-rooted bias against women in particular.

So how in the world is having rookies dress up like them mean they have a dislike or hatred of woman? People throw that word around and it's ridiculous. I can guarantee very few guys in a major league lockerroom are Misogynistic. 

[Tony-OH]

37 minutes ago, El Gordo said:

I agree with this. Origins of hazing: 

Congratulations for the being the first Hangouter to ever post a picture of two baboons doing it!

[El Gordo]

4 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Good Grief!

Misogynistic is good for describing a dislike or hatred of women, or a deep-rooted bias against women in particular.

So how in the world is having rookies dress up like them mean they have a dislike or hatred of woman? People throw that word around and it's ridiculous. I can guarantee very few guys in a major league lockerroom are Misogynistic. 

The point of hazing is to show the rookie where his place is in the hierarchy. Just as it is the point of the two male baboons, If wearing a dress were not regarded as being less than, then they wouldn't be compelled to do it. It is offensive because it implies that being a woman is to be less than.

[Larry18]

I asked my wife if she thought the practice was demeaning to women. She said she didn't see it that way and thought people who aren't involved should probably mind their own business.

An hour later she said her deceased mother would be because of her strict religious upbringing. She thought women wearing slacks was sinful. A real ball of fun.

 

[Number5]

23 minutes ago, Larry18 said:

I asked my wife if she thought the practice was demeaning to women. She said she didn't see it that way and thought people who aren't involved should probably mind their own business.

An hour later she said her deceased mother would be because of her strict religious upbringing. She thought women wearing slacks was sinful. A real ball of fun.

 

I agree.  They should take them off immediately. 

[Tony-OH]

2 hours ago, El Gordo said:

The point of hazing is to show the rookie where his place is in the hierarchy. Just as it is the point of the two male baboons, If wearing a dress were not regarded as being less than, then they wouldn't be compelled to do it. It is offensive because it implies that being a woman is to be less than.

Let's just say I disagree and we can move back to baseball. 

[Tony-OH]

2 hours ago, Larry18 said:

I asked my wife if she thought the practice was demeaning to women. She said she didn't see it that way and thought people who aren't involved should probably mind their own business.

An hour later she said her deceased mother would be because of her strict religious upbringing. She thought women wearing slacks was sinful. A real ball of fun.

 

Haha, your wife would be good friends with my wife. She wouldn't be half as nice as I've been about this. lol

As if this last election didn't prove, we clearly have two ways of thinking in this country about a lot of things. Thankfully, this is a baseball board where we can still talk and enjoy baseball without getting too far into all this stuff. So I'm going back to talking O's!