Tony-OH

MLB article on Martinez and Sanchez. https://www.mlb.com/news/orioles-2024-international-prospects-signings?t=mlb-pipeline-coverage

This is the place to discuss the new signees. I will update this post as info comes out and once I have some discussions. According to MLB.com, " The Orioles have come to terms with outfielder Stiven Martinez and shortstop Emilio Sanchez, a pair of top 30 international prospects, as the 2024 signing period opened Monday. The duo reached agreements of $950,000 and $1.3 million respectively, according to an industry source. The club has not yet confirmed the deals. Baltimore has a pool of $7,114,800 to spend during the signing period." Signings and reported bonuses: POS NAME B/T DATE OF BIRTH COUNTRY - Bonus SS Emilio Sánchez L/R 4/13/2007 Dominican Republic - $1.3 million OF Stiven Martínez R/R 8/8/2007 Dominican Republic - $950K SS Jemone Nuel S/R 1/3/2007 Dominican Republic - $500K SS Elvin García S/R 1/18/2007 Dominican Republic - $500K RHP Yaki Mondesir R/R 9/8/2006 Dominican Republic - $250K OF Ángel García R/R 11/13/2006 Venezuela - $240K C Juan Adames García R/R 9/2/2006 Venezuela - $200K OF Enmanuel Corniel L/R 12/16/2006 Dominican Republic - $200k RHP Esteban Mejía R/R 3/7/2007 Dominican Republic - $140K LHP Reykelly Rubi (18) Cuba C Christian Astudillo R/R 6/13/2007 Venezuela OF Anthwan Brea R/R 2/22/2007 Venezuela SS Héctor Campusano S/R 4/24/2007 Dominican Republic 3B Frainner Chirinos R/R 2/1/2007 Venezuela RHP Luis Espinoza R/R 12/11/2006 Venezuela 3B Saúl Gómez R/R 7/27/2007 Dominican Republic OF Alexander Rincón L/L 9/16/2006 Dominican Republic LHP Víctor Santos L/L 4/19/2007 Dominican Republic OF Argenis Valdez R/R 1/15/2007 Dominican Republic SS Cleudis Valenzuela L/R 11/9/2006 Dominican Republic LHP Reykelly Rubi L/L 10/05/2005 Cuba RHP David De Los Santos R/R 10/06/2005 Dominican Republic RHP Harlin Naut R/R 4/26/2005 Kobe highlighted a few guys: Emilio Sanchez - SS: "We're super excited and feel he's a five tool player who hits from the left side. We feel he can remain at SS. He's a plus runner for his age and shows plus arm strength. We feel he has the ability to develop into a star-caliber player. Stiven Martinez - CF: "A tall, lean, lanky 16-year old with tremendous raw power and a huge arm." Jamone Nuel - SS: "A very toolsy guy who didn't get as much buzz as some others but we feel that he's just as talented and can move up the line pretty quickly." Angel Garcia - OF: "He's a big power hitting, corner outfielder with plenty of speed and strength." Yaki Mondesir - RHP: "6-3, righthander with a very good arm." Esteban Mejía - RHP: "Also solid. Good arm and projection." 2023 Tracker

This is not in the slightest bit accurate. Gunnar was a 1st round talent that got overslot money by the Orioles. In 2020, despite only having 121 PAs in the Gulf Coast League, the Orioles thought enough of him to bring him into the Bowie auxiliary camp with mostly advanced minor league players and AAAA depth guys. He's never been out on my top ten list since being drafted. After his 2021 season most national publications lists had him in the top 100 prospects going into 2022. So I'm not sure you can say non one was super high until last year.

Very nice job on the video by Michael. He does a very good job of interviewing with adding in video clips and pictures. Always nice to see young men talking about they're experiences. Good luck to Lyons on his chapter of his life or catching on with another team. Maybe the Orioles released him now so he had a better chance of catching on somewhere. Better to be released now then after spring training when most teams have rosters set and have their own depth guys.

That's exactly the kind of bush league crap I think about when I start hearing about things like this. Don't get me wrong, that's a ridiculous sum of money for a corporation to give for a stupid patch on a uniform, so its hard to turn that down, but I hate this idea and will never support any company that intrudes on my sports like this. Maybe it would be nice if we knew that money would go into dropping ticket prices or actually signing a player like Gunnar to a 10-year contract (yes I know it would take way more than $75 for that)? Some how I get this impression ticket prices and concessions will still rise, but John Angelos will get another high rise condo in Nashville! So we'll get to look at a Chico Bail Bonds advertisement on the Orioles uniforms and get nothing out of it as fans!

I think we've reached that part of the offseason where there's not much that hasn't been discussed so now everyone gets testy! Still, we're only 52 pages away from 300 on this one so keep at it, but try and be nice! Remember, they're just opinions not personal attacks on you as a person. Even if you are wrong!

While I think Gibson ended up doing the job of a 1 year, $10 million starter last year, I do not think he's a guy they should have resigned. They needed to upgrade that and a pitcher like Cease does upgrade the rotation. While I don't necessarily think Cease is an absolute stud that you give up the farm for (seem that's what the white sox want), he certainly is a better overall pitcher than Gibson. Now, if the Orioles fail to land him or another starter at that level, would Gibson had made some sense at $13 million a year, perhaps, but he's not the guy you land early in the offseason. The Orioles have some decent backup options in case they don't land a quality top 1-3 starter, but I think they should be past signing mediocrity to fill out there rotation.

First, nice job with the work on the depth chart. I'd have a hard time seeing the Orioles start Basallo's clock in 2024 even if he shows up and continues to be impressive at AA and perhaps AAA at some point. Defensively he's pretty good back there and throws better than Adley, though his release is a little long and slow. His plus arm makes up for that though. Either way, the only possibility I see is if he's tearing it up in AAA, and God forbid something happens to Adley and he's going to be out for awhile and the Orioles are in playoff contention towards the end of the year. Even then I think it's probably too aggressive to see him in Baltimore in 2024.

There is a little doubt that the older a prospect gets, there becomes a lessening of value once a player hits 24-25 years old. That doesn't mean they don't have value, but unless there are extenuating circumstances of why a player is still in the minors at that age, there value will take a bit of a hit. Kjerstad obviously does have that will being out so long with Myocarditis as well as the COVID year. Saying that, I do think this is the last year he will have significant value if he doesn't start getting major league production.

ERA+ tells you how the ERA from a pitcher is in comparison to the average ERA of the league. That's it. If you knew a pitcher was going to give up two or less runs over 6 innings in two out of three starts, would you take that? So let's runs this scenario with pitchers over three starts. Pitcher A: 1st start: Allows 1 runs over 6 IP (win) 2nd start: Allows 1 run over 6 IP (win) 3rd start: Allows 6 runs over 3 IP (loss) The pitcher is 2-1 with a 4.80 ERA Pitcher B: 1st start: Allows 4 runs in 5 innings (loss) 2nd start: Allows 4 runs in 4 innings (loss) 3rd start: Allows 0 run over 6 IP (win) The pitcher is 1-2 with a 4.80 ERA I'll take the guy that in 2 out of 3 starts pitches very well vs the one that pitches well 1 out of 3 times. All of these stats really have to be taken into consideration. Relievers will sometimes have high ERAs because they a few meltdown appearances, but if a I know a reliever is going to be darn good 90%+ of the time, I'll take that even if it comes with a few bad appearances vs the guy who may have lower ERA but who consistently gives up runs more often.

I'm not saying it's a useful stats by itself and should be used to evaluate pitchers, but I do think a guy who wins games as a starter, does tell you a few things. A high win total tells us that he gives his team a chance to win more times than not, and perhaps pitches to the scoreboard. The season you are speaking about with Cabrera was his rookie year when he came in 3rd in the ROY award. His 91 ERA+ made him a below average pitcher if you just go by that stats, but the Orioles went 17-10 in his 27 starts on a team that went 78-84. So was he just lucky with run support? Well, he was 8-0 in games where he received 6 or more runs (12 times). But, in his 12 wins, he pitched to a 1.98 ERA and held batters to a .183/.297/.267/.564 slash line. In his 8 losses he had a 10.95 ERA and batters slashed .375/.441/.566/1.007 off him. So basically he was either very good or very bad. Pitching in a very offensive ERA, he went 6 or more innings in 15 of his 27 starts and gave his team a chance to win more times than not. Basically Cabrera that year was a solid 5th starter on a good team because he gave his chance a team a chance to win more times than not and ate innings. Wins, although highly dependent on the offensive output of his team, does give us an idea how often a starter pitcher keeps his team in a game and gives them a chance to win. It's something to put in the equation when looking at your back of rotation candidates, but I would agree with you that you don't make any decision based off the stat alone.

With the emphasis of pitching up in the zone to offset the upper cut that was being taught to hitters now adays, lots of hitters struggle with elite velocity up in the zone. It only becomes a concern when you see guys struggle with non-elite velocity up in the zone or a guy who can't stay off the pitch. Hitters are starting to adjust to modern pitching techniques and flattening out their swing paths up in the zone. As you pointed out, there's a video on Jackson Holliday doing this. I look for guys who can make adjustments when pitchers start getting them out in a certain way. Personally, I only have issues with players not hitting velocity when I start seeing them swing through fastballs in and around the zone more than you would like. I haven't seen enough of Horvath to make any final judgements on his ability to hit elite velocity yet and probably won't until he gets to AA or maybe even AAA.

While I don't think wins tell the entire story of a starting pitcher's worth, I don't believe he stat is worthless. The fact that Gibson pitched well enough to earn 15 wins, more than any other Orioles starter, tells us that he was able to pitch fairly consistently on a good team. Now I agree with you that he was below average overall despite the win totals, but the Orioles did go 20-13 in his starts which is not bad for a guy who should have been a 5th starter on a good team.

Are you new here?

I'd be very happy with the trade. As much as I like each one of those guys, they are not keys to future success and Westburg can be replaced by Ortiz/Urias and or Holliday at some point this year.

No worries, I'll merge it so we can catch up! We need to get to 300 pages!

Yeah, the stuff was well below average and he had a hard time staying healthy. Seemed like whoever selected the players in that trade really did not do a good assessment.

You and Sports Guy keep saying "Blake Snell" type, but the two years he's been an effective starting pitcher over an entire season, both times he pitched 180 innings and was not a 3 or 4 inning opener. This 3-4 inning opener stuff is garbage because teams can't build effective bullpens to cover the innings load that kind of pitcher creates. Feel free to hold out hope for Hall because the Giants, who are paying Hicks like a reliever, supposedly want to give him a shot as a starter. I will say this, if he or the Giants really felt like he was a starter, he wouldn't have signed for $11 mil year for 4 years. He knows he's a reliever.

Maybe with McDermott and Povich both scheduled to be pitching at Norfolk, they feel he's a better fit there then with assisting big leaguers?

Feel free to live in the fantasy land where Hall is a consistent starter who is not blowing up the bullpen because he's at 90 pitches in the 4th inning more times than not. If you think that makes him a TOR, feel free to your opinion. At 22-years old Blake Snell pitched 134 innings and put up a combined 1.41 ERA with a 163-53 K-Bb ratio. By the time he was going into his 25-year old season, he had already started 43 games and pitched in 218 innings at the major league level, but not surprisingly, had only won 11 of his 43 games while pitching to a 3.83 ERA. In five full professional season, Hall has pitched a grand total of 386.1 innings for a whopping average of 77.3 innings a season. They are not even close to being the same. BTW, Snell actually did pitch 180 innings at 25-years old in his breakout season, but had over 500 minor league innings and the 218 major leaue starter innings when that happened. Hall is no Blake Snell, but he very well could be another Billy Wagner if they let him be his best role at the major league level.

Pitches per inning is way better to us than walks per 9. But it don't matter at this point. All the data is out there and everything that can be said has been said by both sides. I've said my piece. Backed it up with stats. You guys have your right to have any opinion that you like.

That trade was made to save money and make the team worse so it it could get a high draft pick. I have to believe that because if not, then we have to ask who made the assessments of the players received in return? Velez is a soft tossing minor league lefty who looks like he will never get out of AA, Guerrero was a lottery ticket who looks like a slow twitch guy with a long swing, and Yaqui Ramirez is a little right-hander who can only pitch in relief and although he's had success at a young age, the stuff doesn't jump out at you as a major league prospect. Scott would have been nice in the pen last year for sure, but maybe they don't go out and get Coulombe if he was here? Coulombe was pretty darn good last yea and Perez was able to settle in and become a ground ball machine from the left-side. When you add in Hall, the Orioles have some nice left-handed options in the pen. i just wish they would have gotten a better return for Scott and Sulser to a lesser extent.

Wells will definitely get a shot at the 5th starter long before Hall, as he should. If the Orioles don't make any additions to the starting rotation, both he and Irvin with get shots at the 5th starter.

Hall does not have the upside of a TOR because of all the reasons that I've stated. Just because a guy has the stuff to be one does not mean he has the other attributes. You can't just say his past doesn't matter, it does. He's proven to you who he is at this point. Smart organizations that are contending don't play games and put guys where they have the best chance of success. This isn't 2021 anymore. The Orioles are contenders and Hall is a big part of their bullpen. There is a downside to trying him again as a starter as well. He should be planning and prepared this spring for being a 60 appearance reliever, not as a starter. He should pitch an inning every few days to get in shape and ready, not pitching every five to six days and trying to go multiple innings. The ship has sailed on Hall being an effective starter. He's never shown the ability to go deep into games and even as a reliever his pitch counts got high on occasion as well. It took him 371 pitches to go 19.1 innings (19.2 pitches per inning) last year as a reliever at the major league level. That's on par for what's always been. That's way too many for a starter unless you are ok with 4-5 innings starts every five starts.

The Orioles would be dumb to start the clock on a kid who has a lot more develop to do physically and defensively when they already have solid choices that are more major league ready on their 40-man roster. I also think "executives" give about two seconds of thoughts into polls about players on other teams so that holds no weight. It's fine that people think it's up in the air, and I heard with Elias said, but i also heard what Blood said and that makes a lot more sense. Personally I think Elias said what he said about Holliday was to show teams that Westburg and Ortiz are definitely available. Elias is a smart guy who is very media savvy. he has no reason to pump up Holliday to potentially start 2024 with the Orioles unless theirs an ulterior motive. Now, he's been quiet on Mayo and we've heard rumblings from Roch that the team may want to give him a look in RF, which makes sense. Now, what happens with Ortiz and Westburg over the next 5-6 weeks is what really could affect this entire situation. I could be wrong, as it won't be the first time, but I just don't see Holliday jumping Mayo on the promotion pecking order unless there is a whole at 2B that needs a filling. I think Urias plays 2B over Holliday just because I don't see them starting his clock at 20-years old unless he shows up and looks like the best player on the field. I think if the Orioles can get two years between when they'll need to pay Gunnar and Holliday, they'd prefer that. Sure, the needs of the team because of injuries could change all that, but I would be surprised if Holliday is promoted before Mayo.