Moose Milligan

McCann isn’t average as a backup C. He’s probably below average if they try to play him anywhere else. Still though, an upgrade at backup catcher, while a good thing, doesn’t move the needle a whole lot.

O’Hearn is below average. Frazier is below average. McCann is below average. Practically everyone they picked up this off-season outside of Givens and maybe Gibson are below average. Do you disagree?

Well, it's not. I think it's vastly more likely for an NFL team to go from being at the bottom of a division to being a playoff contender or making a playoff run in a couple years time. That's not this. Elias has been clear from the start as to what his goal is, which is to create an organization that can supply the big-league club with a steady flow of talent. He's taken the franchise from being in the dark ages in terms of advanced metrics and analytics to a place where, as far as I can tell, they're able to hold their own with other forward thinking franchises. He's built a facility in the Dominican and he's taken this organization from practically no-presence in South America to being able to spend money down there. If they revert to a 70-75 win team, I don't think it makes much of a difference as to his job security. While I have my criticisms of him (not being able to sign quality free agents, not being able to swing meaningful offseason trades) I'm overall happy with him and what he's done. One season isn't really going to change that.

This isn't the NFL.

We're going to have to agree to disagree, hombre. I get that you like the upgrades they've made this off-season so far and that's fine. I'll agree that these players should be better. I just don't think they'll be significantly better. I mean, Frazier had a lower OPS than Odor last year, so I'm hoping his glove is somehow significantly better. But why not sign guys to free up at bats for rookies? I'd much rather see someone like Westburg get a shot at 2nd base instead of Frazier. Frazier's best days are behind him, Westburg has a chance to be a very solid every day player. I am confident that Westburg could surpass the numbers that Frazier put up last year and I don't think it'd be particularly close. In other words, save 8 million and play someone who's being considered a key piece to this rebuild and get better production. I don't think anyone's naive enough to think that rookies won't struggle, but there's upside there that they can get past their struggles and make a breakthrough. Odor struggling all last year wasn't going to get any better. That's the difference, you want to watch guys who have an upside to see if they're going to show signs of figuring it out. There's no upside for Frazier. There was no upside for Odor. Again, you seem to think this team so far has added "much better" depth. I don't.

I think the entire point you're missing is that the depth that looks to be projected on the roster next year isn't significantly better than the Odor's, Chrinos's and Nevin's. Like, if you can explain the difference to me in the value between Nevin and O'Hearn, I'd love to hear it. I will admit that Frazier should be better than Odor, but it's still a dumb signing.

Was this not you talking about last year?

Well Odor was worth -0.4 rWAR and Vavra was worth 0.1 rWAR. I'm not sure if you think fWAR is the flex you think it is. I'm not sure if rWAR is the flex I think it is either but I think we can both admit that Vavra isn't the second coming of Roberto Alomar and the Orioles were stupid for not playing him more. That said, I place a higher value on OBP vs. power and I've had gladly taken Vavra's .340 OBP (smaller sample size, I realize but you can't deny his approach was better) over Odor's .275. Massive upgrade? Probably not. Upgrade? Yes, I think he would have been. And, most importantly, it would have saved us from having to watch Odor for a whole year. In other words, play the kid with the upside who might surprise you, not the aging vet who's looking for his last day in the sun.

Yeah, because we picked up Adam Frazier, Franchy Cordero and Ryan O'Hearn. If Nomar Mazara sets foot into Camden Yards this season, I might break a window at the Warehouse. Here's a potential Sunday punt lineup, you tell me if you like it: Frazier: SS Cordero: RF Urias: 3B Santander: DH Vavra: 2B Hays: LF O'Hearn: 1B McKenna: CF McCann C

I'm not sure why you're attempting to move the goalposts. You asked who I'd have preferred to play over Odor last year, I told you Vavra. You seemed to struggle to comprehend why that was, so I explained it to you. Thankfully, Odor isn't here, even though you were defending him by wondering out loud who could have taken his place and done a better job. Where does Vavra project to play right now? Hell if I know, we were talking about last season. But I wouldn't be mad if he was a utility infielder for the 2023 season.

Well, Odor was an automatic out last year. Nevin was an automatic out. I'm gonna get flak for it, but I don't care, Mountcastle was an automatic out last year for a good chunk of the summer. I mean, we must have been watching different baseball teams last year. You must not have seen the one that I saw which had a really hard time scoring runs for significant stretches.

Dude, Odor was -0.4 WAR last year. Vavra was 0.1 in significantly less playing time. I'm not saying I think Vavra would have been an all-star or anything but I think he'd have been a good bit better than Odor. I mean, it's a low bar to hurdle but I'd much rather have given Vavra 426 at bats instead of Odor. I can't believe we're even having this conversation.

I think they'll get a lackluster SP candidate in the door at the last minute. But hey, It'S oNlY JaNuArY 4tH!!!!

If you have a few guys in the lineup who are automatic outs, how productive do you think that lineup is going to be?

Yes.

I don't think Odor plays anywhere in the bigs this year. He'll be lucky to get a cup of coffee somewhere. Vavra would have been a meaningful upgrade. Yes, he has no power but at least he has an idea of what to do at the plate instead of swinging from his heels every time. Vavra walked 12 times in 89 at bats. Odor walked 32 times in FOUR HUNDRED AND TWENTY SIIIIIIX at bats. I would have gladly traded Vavra's OBP skills, overall plate approach and middling defensive skills over Odor's hacking and questionable defensive skills last year, gladly. Power is overrated when you can't do much of anything else and Odor's 13 homers last year weren't enough to bump him into positive WAR territory.

I saw Rougned Odor get 426 at bats last year. I SAW ROUGNED ODOR GET 426 AT BATS LAST YEAR. Four hundred annnndddd tweeeenty siiiiiiiiix at bats. They will find a way to get bad players at bats because they have shown a propensity to do so.

"Don't bother watching on Sundays."

This is pathetic. Good to see you back on the board, wish you'd post more. Yes, we need someone as pathetic as Chris Davis. Or Rougned Odor. I should have set it at 30 but I think we're going to blow way past that at this rate.

I don't see any news that the Chubbies have signed him. Makes me think there's enough time to have been wasted for the Orioles to come in and do something dumb.

Wife: Who's this guy they got from the Royals yesterday? Moose: O'Hearn. He's not good. Wife: WHY THE **** ARE THEY GETTING ALL THESE BAD PLAYERS?

I'm setting the over/under on pages about Ryan O'Hearn at 15. And taking the OVER. My favorite interloper is the "cool guy, I'm above it all" interloper.

Who all is ready for the Ryan O'Hearn era???????

True, and I get that. And quite frankly, I'm not expecting Frazier to bounce back in any sort of way. I'm expecting maybe similar production to what he did last year or a slight decline.

Okay. But again, I don't think the Orioles or anyone really expected Odor to "bounce back." He hasn't had more than 1.0 WAR (baseball reference WAR) since 2018 when he was at 2.5. He's been in the negative each year since then except one year where he was 0.3 So I get where you're coming from to a certain extent but I think Odor was brought in as a placeholder of sorts, maybe a guy who could run into a fastball every so often and not be completely helpless on defense. And that whole pesky veteranosity thing, clubhouse guy....his teammates loved him, there's no doubt about that. I think they were trying to see if they could capture lightning in a bottle with Jesus Aguilar and, again, see if he could run into a fastball every once in awhile. Yeah, it was a bad signing but, IIRC, they were in a funk and looking for a spark. I'll agree that Aguilar wasn't the guy to give it to them. In other words, I don't think the Orioles ever advertised that they have a sophisticated system to get guys to "bounce back." I don't think Elias would ever really claim that. In a game where there's risk in every move that you make, I would argue that the "bounce back" player who hasn't had a good season in 2+ years is arguably the riskiest proposition of them all. And quite frankly, I'm doubtful there's such a "system" or a "program" in place for guys like that here. All you can really do is bring them in, have the coaches work with them, show them tape from when they were successful and see if they can get back to that. But for a lot of reasons they can't and that's why they're winding up in situations like Odor and Aguilar found themselves in last year. I mean, the history of baseball landscape is littered with guys who had a few good seasons and couldn't replicate it anywhere else. To say that the Orioles are bad at rejuvenating careers is a bit of an strange flex. I'm not trying to be antagonistic or disrespectful, mind you, but I don't really see a strategy such as this as being a focal point to building a winning team. The focal point for Elias has been -and probably will always be- building a great system to continue to bring talent through the system via draft and the international market. And, hopefully, being able to spend some smart money in free agency. His goal isn't to rejuvenate players who were once established and have fallen off.