Moose Milligan

I stopped reading when I did your math and realized you think Adley’s gonna play in all 162. I know you’re all excited about the season but c’mon.

I can understand that it’s possible that Frazier is better than Westburg in 2023. But who has more upside in their career right now?

8 million is a good chunk of money to spend on hope. Odds are he’s in his declining years but I guess we all have to find out now.

Teams trying to contend spend 8 million on a one year contract for a 31 year old second baseman coming off a 0.9 win season and a .612 OPS? For the record Odor put up a .632 OPS last year. So you mean to tell me between Ortiz and Westburg we couldn’t scratch 1.0 win and saved ourselves 8 million while getting our better prospects playing time in Baltimore? Frazier should be an upgrade over Odor, but that’s a low bar to hurdle. That upgrade should have been able to have been achieved with players we already have. If you can’t understand that, then there’s no use in continuing to talk about it. Between Ortiz, Westburg and Urias there’s depth and there’s upside. A one year contract doesn’t create depth. A one year contract is a band-aid. In this case it’s a band-aid for a problem that doesn’t exist.

Must be nice to trade for a good pitcher. Wouldn't know.

Okay, that wasn't an option and no one knows for sure if he'll be able to trade Frazier for a Seth Johnson type. If we're going to play that card, you also have to assume the inverse is a possibility which is that Frazier is so bad that Elias can't find any takers for him.

What kind of prospect do you think Elias can get for 3 or so months of Frazier? Here's what I want to know, WC...would you rather have: 1. Frazier for one year at 8 million or 2. No Frazier and 8 million saved and still have Mateo, Urias, Ortiz and Westburg battling it out for starting 2B in ST?

I dunno, I don't think Elias has anything to do with it, really. I don't know if Elias has reached that point where he's a certified legend, a leader in his field and no one should second guess him. Maybe when it comes to drafting and getting really good talent in the pipeline, sure. He might be on that level. But I don't think he's proven himself as some wheeler dealer GM who hits more often than he busts. I think the same people who are saying the Frazier signing is fine would say the Frazier signing is fine no matter who the GM was. Orange colored glasses.

This is what it's all about, IMO. What does 8 million get us that Ortiz and/or Westburg couldn't get for a fraction of the cost? If this were prime Roberto Alomar level talent and production, we're not having this conversation. But he's not, so we are. If the argument is defensive flexibility, fine, I guess, but is that worth 8 million to have an average defender out there with declining speed? I don't think so. The lefthanded bat is so overrated and weird, I can't even believe that was a reason they signed him. It's like Frazier is some weird not very good Frankenstein of a player with different skill sets that hypnotized Elias into writing a really large check. "Left handed hitting second basemen are rare! And he can play in the outfield, too! All three things together, I'd pay 2 million apiece for so let's just all roll that into one and throw two more million on top just to be safe!"

It's weird seeing people get all excited for prospects, how great the farm system is and then try to defend a move which blocks the very prospects they're excited about.

Anyone in favor? He's still out there. Aroldis Chapman got desperate yesterday and signed with the Royals, I figure Britton might be desperate enough to slum it with the Orioles if he doesn't find any takers. Looks like he was shut down late last year with shoulder fatigue, which is an awesome sign! Anyone wanna kick the tires?

I'm betting on his skills eroding, not leveling off or getting any better. The stiffy that Elias had for getting a lefthanded bat this offseason was inexplicable. Now maybe Frazier has a one-year, prove it, contract year and puts up good numbers, 3+ WAR, wins us over, helps us win games and the Orioles get to the playoffs. Fine, that's good. Still would have preferred to see the prospects.

I wouldn’t give him a 40 man spot but I’d see if we could get him in the system. Probably wouldn’t amount to anything but he’s still 26 and a former top prospect.

Mannnn, SG. You had me there for a second. Unfortunately it's Wade Garrett. But I think we should get together and watch Road House sometime. Here's a picture of me and SG telling Elias what we think of his offseason:

True, we won't know until it plays out. But I'd rather see the guys play who could have a future with this club, not a guy like Frazier. 8 million for "veteran presence" is a bit much and I wasn't aware that Frazier had such a commanding clubhouse presence. If I'm looking for "veteran presence" it's gotta be a guy who's been a part of a World Series team or two or at the very least has slugged Jose Bautista in the jaw. I'm hoping that you're right and that Frazier (and maybe Urias) is traded. MLB had that silly promo campaign a few years ago, "Let The Kids Play," and it's time that the Orioles take that advice.

I think you're missing the point. People are advocating for the prospects that this very thread is about.

I know, right? It also blows my mind that there are people who want to think everything is hunky dory, too. Know what I mean? Like everything the Orioles are doing is great, every move is awesome and this team is going to win 110 games this year and walk away with a World Series. The members of the Lollipop Guild in their propeller hats who think that everything is just ducky and, gee golly gosh, Mike Elias can do no wrong and everything is just sunshine and puppy dogs! I don't think anyone here lost their mind when we traded Iglesias. But if we're talking about losing the forest through the trees, I think you missed on that analogy. True, Frazier is a blip on the radar in the sense that he's here for one year but the overall direction of the franchise is going to be dictated by the very prospects he stands to hold back in playing time for this year. Westburg and Ortiz will get their chances in Baltimore, no doubt about that but Frazier's presence this year gets in the way of that. If the forest is a winning ballclub and a contending ballclub, Westburg and Ortiz are more likely to be part of the forest and therefore it's paramount that these guys are getting at bats and time in the field in Baltimore, not guys like Adam Frazier. And not guys like Adam Frazier at 8 million. I mean, we're wasting Adley years now on guys like Adam Frazier for 8 million, that doesn't make sense if the forest is a youth movement and building as much of a core as possible. Not to mention that this team is a pennypincher and that 8 million could have been spent better elsewhere (like on the rotation). So you're somewhat correct in that Frazier doesn't alter the direction of the franchise from a 30k foot view since he's here on a one year contract, but he's certainly here to stunt the growth potential of prospects in 2023. I mean, what's more valuable to this franchise going forward, getting Westburg and/or Ortiz significant playing time in 2023 or Adam Frazier trying to crack a .700 OPS? They've gotta see what they have in these guys in 2023 so they know who they can count on for 2024 and beyond and Frazier gets in the way of that.

I don't know if that's where his head is necessarily at...as he noted in the presser from the other day, great system with a high ranking, back to back #1 prospects in the same year, etc. He knows what's up on the baseball side. I don't think John is an idiot, not by any stretch of the imagination. Maybe not media savvy, sure, I'll buy that. I'm saying this with the disclaimer that he doesn't give us much to go on, as noted there have only been a handful of times where he's been available to the media over the past few years. But I have to assume that he's keenly aware of how his father is perceived as the owner of the Orioles and it's most likely easier to stay secluded from the public and the media in that capacity rather than try to fight his father's battles that he's been losing since 1993. There's no doubt that Peter Angelos has done a lot of great things for the city of Baltimore, but his legacy and reputation are most likely a bit tarnished to the average Baltimorean because of what a disaster he's been as owner of the Orioles. John has to know that. He HAS to know that, he'd be a complete idiot not to. And to combat 25 years of mistakes that his father has made as the owner of a franchise that at one time was one of baseball's crown jewels is an uphill battle he might not have the energy to fight. I'm also assuming a few other things here; he's going to wait till his old man passes on before making himself more publicly available. I'm not sure what his relationship is with his father, but it's probably easier to take the path of least resistance by not making himself available to the media and to the fans rather than interfacing with the press and then having to hear about it from his father. That quote, "The sins of the father are to be laid upon the children..." yeah, John is a privileged son of a billionaire, probably hasn't had to work for anything in his life. To borrow another quote from Pearl Jam, he won the lottery when he was born. So knowing that, knowing that he's probably never had to roll up his sleeves, he's been born on third base...he's going to take the path of least resistance when it comes to dealing with the media. It's the easy way out. That's not a defense of him, by the way. I just think that trying to clean up his father's mess (while his father is still alive) is hard and he's going to wait until his father is passed on and/or the team is really contending year in, year out before he makes himself more publicly available. Again, it'll be easier to be media friendly when there's a winner on the field.

He's got too much swing and miss in his game and not enough walks. He could be a piece for us but I don't think he's going to be an untouchable one.

The Frazier deal was the height of stupidity. Thank goodness it was only a one year deal but I'd have rather given Ortiz or Westburg the job out of ST this year.

Plus whoever we draft this year. I don't think you'll see it next year, but in the year after I think we'd see some names from the international markets that we've signed, perhaps Basallo if he continues to develop.

Good to see. Surprised to see Ortiz at #99, was expecting them to sneak Mayo in there in the 90s.

Adley's kind of a dork.

After reading Connolly's column in the Athletic, I kind of get it. This guy promised to make himself more public and more accessible and hasn't done so. Connolly said the last time he showed his face was on a zoom call to announce the McCartney concert. So it appears that John is only going to make appearances when it's not baseball related. So Connolly shot his shot, I can't really blame him for it. I don't have a problem with some of the content of John's response but the tone was wrong. And John shouldn't be such a b****. Like he pointed out yesterday, the team is on the right track, two back to back #1 prospects, things are looking up for once. I get that it probably sucks to have to deal with the perception people have of his father as it comes to owning the Orioles and that people are probably going to project that onto him but he should do himself some good and make himself more available.

I don't like this either, but some of the umpires out there (Laz Diaz, Angel Hernandez, CB Bucknor) are making this a necessity. I agree with the above, it will take something away from the game. Pitch framing, how catcher's set up, receive pitches, etc...it's a small part of the game, but the game can be decided in the inches. Plus arguing balls and strikes is always a good time.