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Have you watched Suarez over the past 6 weeks? Rogers is a rotation upgrade, period. And hopefully Suarez stuff plays better in the pen as a long man.

Disagree. Norby and Stowers both had zero future here. Zero. Maybe you could argue that they should've brought more back. But the market is the market. Do you think Elias didnt shop them around, and just said F it, lets go get Trevor Rogers? We just improved our team with two guys that will not have played a role here. Burnes, Grayson, Eflin, Rogers, Kremer vs Burnes, Grayson, Kremer, Suarez, Povich I know which one I am choosing.

Would you rather have Cade Povich pitching?

Nah

Connor Norby just hit one out of Harbor Park. But this aint Norfolk.

Right. That's what I'm saying though. It may just be me, but I wouldnt be excited about a Pache for Pillar swap. Pillar doesnt move the needle for us in my opinion. I guess in that case we essentially get an Austin Hays type back plus added a solid reliever in Dominguez. But I just have a feeling we would be forcing Pillar into every lineup vs LHP and I just dont see his offensive production being great in that role.

Can he play CF better than Pache?

Feels like I'm the only one, but I do not see the allure of Kevin Pillar. Hes been worth negative bWAR 3 out the last 5 years, and is 35 years old. He has not had over 1 bWAR over the course of a season since 2018. I feel like we would be watching a lot of very frustrating at bats and complaining at the lineups with him playing every day vs lefties. Career OBP under .300. Not sure hes better than Austin Hays.

The theories and diagnoses that I've seen thrown around here, including the opening post of this very thread, have been something.

Elias did say in an interview a few weeks back that ownership has pretty much given him backing to do what he needs to do this deadline, including supplementing payroll. I cant remember his exact words. The Eflin trade would support that. Hopefully he has a few more up his sleeve.

Woudnt that be nice.

I dont think theyve indicated anything either way. But point being I dont see them moving off Urias with Mateo out, regardless of how long that is.

Problem is, we have two of them. One of Mateo/Urias should go. The Mateo injury complicates things, so I think you have to hold onto Urias until then, but when Mateo is back you dont need to carry both of them, and you didnt have to carry both of them in April either.

You certainly cant trade or get rid of all of them at once. You're not going to cut loose 5 or 6 position player contributor veterans from a 101 win team all at once. Where I think we probably messed up was not getting rid of ANY of them, and now scrambling to possibly offload several. One or two of Hays/Mullins/Mounty could have certainly been offloaded during the offseason making it easier to trade another right now. And one of Urias/Mateo should've been gone this offseason. I like having Mateo a little more because of his speed/defense/versatility. Keeping all 5 of them on the roster created an unnecessary log jam, and not because of their production. I have always liked Hays, but I'm glad we traded him, and I hope that we can trade Mounty or Mullins or both as well before the deadline. Urias should be DFA or traded for a lottery ticket at this point, but the Mateo injury complicates things and I dont think we get rid of Urias until Mateo is back. I have long been of the opinion that we should extend Tony, felt this way last offseason as well. He is a switch hitting slugger- very hard to find, and valuable to a team with all lefty hitting outfielder. He also plays a solid RF in Camden Yards and is a great locker room guy by all accounts we get access to.

How? He didnt have to travel far, and came over and around the ball for a better angle than backpedaling. He wouldve been fine just letting Ramon take it as well, dont get be wrong. Regardless, he is the short stop. Its HIS ball 100/100 times if he calls for it. If you saw his post game interview he clearly said he called for it, and we had a member here who was sitting behind the SD dugout that heard him call for it as well. Its on Ramon to get the F outta the way.

Funny this thread was started on July 12 asking if the "slide continues" and things on July 27 seem far worse.

Well there you go. As I said previously, There is no way for anyone watching on TV to hear what Gunnar did Verbally. But confirmation that he called him off right here. And then the BS ramon Oley error the next inning. Dean shouldve had a shutout.

This is not true. That play was a can of corn for either of them, but A short stop getting behind the ball and coming forward is easier than a backpedaling 3B. And regardless , short stop takes precedence on any ball like that just like CF should. He definitely “called” for it with his arms, not sure what he did vocally, we wouldn’t know from the camera feed. But if he did call for it, it’s his ball 100 times out of 100. If he didn’t call for it then that’s his fault and he needs to yell.

Then get Mayo up with the big club.

Only reason I brought those guys up is because someone posted that from the baseball trade values site. And Mounty alone lined up with Castillo as an even match. In fact, I think the value was in Mountcastle's favor like 15.5 to 14 something. I know that site isnt an exact science, but might speak to Mountcastles value being stronger than you think. So I was wondering what else we would need to add.

Exactly..

Well I had posed the question- what would be needed to add to Mullins/Mountcastle to make it work. I'm not saying it would be a done deal. You didnt answer that, but I'll answer your questions to the best of my knowledge. Why would Seattle want them- Because they are one of the worst teams in baseball offensively and desperate for hitting help. They have a chance to make a deep run because of their pitching, and maybe they dont want to deal from that position of strength, but teams in contention will not want their prospects back. Rodriguez is currently on the IL, and probably will remain so for several weeks. They have Robles, and could platoon Mullins with him in CF. Arozarena doesnt play CF at a high level and neither does anyone else on their roster. After JRod returns, whenever that may be, Mullins can still fill in at all 3 spots and be a pretty good late inning defensive replacement for them. So yea, Mullins probably does not have much value in a trade, but he fits a need for them right now, and is somewhat redundant for us at this point. I think you are underestimating Mountcastle's trade value as well. He is a pretty significant instant upgrade for them at 1B. If they trade the few hitting prospects they have away, then maybe they find themselves in the same predicament they are in now when those guys are ready, but they are no longer in the organization. I just figured they may want to trade Castillo over one of the younger options like Miller or Woo because Castillo is far more expensive and he is aging. I dont know if they are looking to shed salary, but that always seems like a consideration with the middle/small market teams.

I agree. I would hold off with Urias for now with Mateo out. He can play 3B/2B/1B and SS in a pinch, so his versatility on the bench is valuable without Mateo. This spot will open up for Holliday when rosters expand either way, unless we trade Norby in which case it would open up sooner. But the Mounty for Mayo swap should happen ASAP. Mounty has some real trade value and should be able to be a part of a package for some pitching.

He does seem redundant on this roster now, and he should have a little trade value, although not much. Would see what we would need to add to Mullins and Mounty to Seattle to get Luis Castillo. Would Mullins/Mounty/Beavers get us Castillo?

Without your snarky response, my point is this. You claim that Joey Ortiz was without question the best defensive player we had in the organization. I am saying that doing that in Bowie/Norfolk and doing that in Baltimore are very different things. Especially at a position as demanding as shortstop. To just assume that he would come up and be prime Omar Vizquel in the big leagues doesnt make sense to me. And Milwaukee has not even put him at SS this year. During that time where he was supposedly the best defensive player in our entire organization we also had a gold glove winner at 3B and fielding bible award winner at SS so I find it hard to believe that Joey wouldve been better than those two in Baltimore in 2022. So now we look at 2024 in the big leagues- Fangraphs defensive metric which is positional adjusted so should correct for comparing across positions has Gunnar at 7.0 above average and Joey at 4.9 above average. We have a shortstop who is younger and better defensively. As I said, time will tell if Joey becomes one of the best defensive players in the big leagues, I hope he does. But with every projection metric, offensively or defensively, they still have to come up and perform and do it. I do think that Joey shouldve been our starting 2B over Frazier last year.