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LIke I said, until he proves that hes the best defender in the organization in Baltimore- I'm not crowning him as such. Clearly the Brewers agree or else they wouldve shifted Adames for him.

I'm with you and I would very much consider giving up a 10-15 ranked prospect plus more for Skubal. I dont think we can just brush off being #1 as being meaningless however. It does carry some weight, whether that weight is warranted or not.

I guess we will have to wait and see, but I cant crown a guy as a better defender because he was thought to have been better in Bowie.

Yes, its my opinion, but its based on MLB trade history and Mike Elias trade tendencies. You said does Elias wait until the end to make a move, but you also named Holliday by name. I brought this up in another thread, but the only other time in MLB recent history where the #1 prospect in baseball was traded for pitching was when the Red Sox traded for Chris Sale and sent over #1 Yoan Moncada and others. Of course, in this example, Moncada has not panned out as I'm sure the White Sox hoped when they received the #1 prospect in the game. This was also an offseason trade, not an inseason trade. And Chris Sale was far more successful and proven as an MLB pitcher at that time. He had been to 5 consecutive All Star Games, and had finished in the top 5 in Cy Young voting 5 consecutive years as well. Skubal made his first ASG this year and has never finished in the top 10 of Cy Young voting. Skubal is very talented and has the chance to get to that level, but There is not really a comparison between 2016 Chris Sale and 2024 Tarik Skubal nor anyone else who could be traded this deadline. This is why I say Holliday will not be moved. He is way more valuable than people around here are giving him credit for (#37 trade value in all of baseball per fangraphs). There is just not a lot of historical evidence that GM's are willing to part with #1, and certainly Elias has not shown the tendency to give up top prospects. He has liked to trade from the 6-12 range in the Orioles system.

How is Joey Ortiz a better SS than Gunnar, when Joey Ortiz isnt even playing SS for Milwaukee. By their statcast page Gunnar is better in every defensive metric as well.

You need to realize that Holliday is not going anywhere. Not even worth discussing. We're not trading the #1/#1 prospect in the game.

Love what Hays brought to this franchise during the dark years, but this was a good trade. Brought in a guy to the bullpen who has elite stuff (most of our current guys do not), and brought in a defensive/speed minded outfielder who can backup CF. Essentially a Jorge Mateo of the outfield. Maybe this opens up the ability to trade Mullins/Mounty before Tuesday which could move me from "like it" to "love it"

This trade immediately upgraded our team and rotation, which was a huge need. We gave up 3 guys that probably would not have seen the Orioles roster in the next 2+ years or ever. Love it. And I hope we're not done. I find it funny when we complain about "wish we didnt give up _____" None of these guys are our "guys." We cant even find time for Mayo and Holliday (or Norby before the Mateo injury) and we're worried about Mac Horvath (no offense to Mac)? Mac is OLDER than Mayo, Holliday and Gunnar by the way, and will be blocked by Gunnar/Westy/Mayo/Norby+ for the next several years if we keep them around. I hope he goes and has a great career in the MLB, but it shouldnt affect the Orioles one bit. You've got to give something up to get something, and we need to seriously upgrade the 2024 Orioles while not mortgaging the future and this trade fit all of the criteria.

Team is unwatchable right now. Not sure what the answer is.

And that one shouldnt even count. Two botches routine outs turned to Oriole runs.

I guess I am trying to figure out how a score keeper in 2024's baseball should score that then. Side arm throw = error on SS, not side armed throw = error on 1B? Trying to look cool = error on SS, not trying to look cool = error on 1B? He throws everything side arm I dont think that play was any different. He took an awkward last hop that skipped low, then threw it how he always does. We're all frustrated so I am just taking that out here in the game thread, just having a hard time following your rationale.

What does that have to do with a short hopped throw that the 1B couldnt handle? You said that in today's game that error goes to the 1B.

This offense is so bad, I dont understand. These other teams foul off pitch after pitch after pitch. Hit singles, situational hitting, move runners over, walk. We just over aggressive swing early and often.

What about the throw from Gunnar? Didnt you say that is always scored against the 1B these days?

What would it take to get Luis Castillo from the Mariners and Erick Fedde from the White Sox? Two trades that I think would solve a lot for us, and also should not cost much of our premium prospects. The Mariners are very clearly in need of offense, and as has been discussed here, a veteran for veteran offense for pitching trade makes a lot of sense and would open up some of the roster log jam we have here. I cant remember where I saw it posted but someone posted the Trade Value Simulation website which had Mounty and Castillo as similar values. I doubt that Seattle would take that straight up, even if they are trying to get off his contract. It would be a big investment for us financially, but it would also give us some stability in the rotation the next few years. Would Mountcastle for Castillo work straight up? Would Mounty and Mullins get it done? Mountcastle and another prospect? Could we include a reliever from Seattle for Mounty/Mullins/Prospect? And for Fedde.. would Norby + another prospect work? If we got both, we could go into the last two months of the season with Burnes/Castillo/Grayson/Fedde/Kremer. IF we add a reliever with Castillo they get inserted in, and Suarez can go to the pen as well. Mayo can come up to replace Mounty. Cowser can take over as the primary CF and Stowers can come up to be the backup CF. C Adley/McCann, 1B Mayo/O'Hearn, 2B Holliday/Westburg, SS Gunnar, 3B Westburg/Urias, LF Kjerstad/Hays, CF Cowser/Stowers, RF Tony/Kjerstad

What proof is there that we’re “tired” other than guys slumping. Have they come out and said they are tired right now? The tough stretch everyone wants to reference was in June, it’s July 25th now, so are they just going to be “tired the rest of the season? They literally had the all star break less than a week ago. And you can say that Adley and Gunnar and Westy and Tony are still tired because they played in the game. Well, they still had two full days off Wednesday and Thursday last week plus an off day Monday this week, not sure when else we will get rest like that for tired guys. Our rotation is struggling because we have 40% of the rotation filled with guys who are probably not mlb quality starters. Our bullpen is struggling for the same reason. Our offense is struggling because our main guys are in a slump (this happens to every team, not just automatically meaning tired), and the rest of the lineup is filled with 3-4 virtually automatic outs every day. were they tired in June? Probably, but they’ve had plenty of time since then, and if they are still tired now then I don’t see how they aren’t just tired the rest of the way.

I'm not saying that Mayo struggling to hit and field is not a real possibility, but I dont know why we act like we have nothing else available if he completely falters. Especially when the alternative is running Urias/Mateo out there every day. If Mayo comes up and looks like April Holliday at the plate we still have several options at 2B with Holliday 2.0 and Norby which would slide Westy to 3B full time. Obviously losing Mateo hurts this a little more because now you've probably lost Urias and Mateo. There is no perfect time, and there is always the possibility of him struggling both offensively and defensively. But one thing I do know, running Urias and Mateo out there every day has not helped the team, and the team is in need of a wake up call. If the plan is to play Mayo exclusively at 1B and DH, well then you probably have traded Mountcastle instead of Urias and you've Got O'Hearn/Santander/Urias (in a pinch) as other 1B options as well if Mayo struggles.

Witt did the homer run derby and ASG and went 13/16 coming into the second half. Adley gets more days off catching than most I would imagine with how much we play McCann. What you are saying has no evidence what so ever.

Giving up 5.19 runs our last 26 games Scoring 3.76 runs our last 26 games Removed the 14-11 loss to Houston as what would be the 27th game. I didn't think the offense deserved credit as that game was a huge blow out with a bunch of late meaningless runs and it helped the pitching number a bit. But it goes to 5.51 runs a game given up and 4.04 scored with that one.

Any day now Elias, any day now

Gunnar is an elite athlete, always has been. That was always well documented even during the draft process. He was an all state type level basketball player in high school, and I believe was very good at football as well. Everything I've seen written about Jackson is that he is similarly elite athletically speaking- speed/acceleration/strength etc. Having the two of them up the middle would be a very athletic middle infield.

What evidence do you have that JH does not make that same play?

Its been 41 years (Rose from Titanic voice). So yea, I would trade anyone if it guaranteed a title.

Yea you are probably right on how it usually shakes out, but at least it wouldnt be "short rest" by definition.

Pitching today would still have Povich on normal 4 days rest going into Monday.