Pickles

Because Sports Guy has decided he wants to trade Kremer, so now logic will be contorted, and facts will be either ignored or promoted, all based on the idea that Kremer MUST be traded.

It's hard to come up with an equivalency because it's so pitcher heavy. I will continue to point out: They do not get a positional prospect better than Joey Ortiz in that package.

Says who?

How so? It's true. If Ortiz was 22 years old, major league ready, with a career AAA of .900 OPS for 500+ PAs, with GG upside with the glove, he'd be damn near a top ten prospect in baseball. The only reason he's a tier below is because he is older.

I understand why age matters. Everybody does. You're not breaking anything new. It's already calculated into Ortiz' value. If Ortiz was 22, he'd be a top 10 prospect in the game, which nobody would ever give up for Cease.

Well, who's that guy? Vaughn Grissom? If a big factor in who they get is if the guy is 29 or 31 in 2030 when he's a free agent, then they're calculating in a very stupid way. Now, they might be doing that. They are the White Sox.

He's 25. He'll be fine. Again, if they could've got a top 25 guy who was major league ready, they would have by now. But they can't. So their choice is what the Orioles let them have, or they can go play around with 19 year old arms.

No, but I'm speculating on what we've heard. Trading away global top 60 prospects who are major league ready with incredibly high floors doesn't happen every day. In fact, it's very rare, because they have a lot of value.

I mean I think I just enumerated it pretty well. Are you going to get Adam Jones for Cease? Nobody's offering that. Nobody is even sniffing Kjerstad or Cowser in offer. Very few could, or would. I know they're not exactly equivalent value, but Kjerstad, Cowser, Ortiz, they get one of those guys. Not two.

I don't see why. He's a top 60ish prospect globally; you couldn't be more major league ready; and his floor is incredibly high. Who's offering something better than that? (And I'm willing to include more than Ortiz, quality too, but I haven't seen a single team linked to a Cease trade where the top prospect was clearly superior to Ortiz. As I keep saying, they can go play with 19 year old pitchers if they want, but Ortiz is much more likely to provide value, and certainly provide sooner.

Sounds like it's being moderated perfectly.

Good. They're reading over here. Hey guys. Question for you: If Cease is so good, why do the White Sox suck so bad? And two: F Off and have fun with your 19 year old A ball pitchers. That should work out great for you.

Better than Holliday's?

Oh he made a memorably bad impression on me.

Right, but if it doesn't make sense to start Ortiz at SS then he almost certainly isn't a better option to start anywhere else because he has the worst bat of the bunch, likely so. (I'm including Holliday.)

My favorite part of the bit, which doesn't jump out at you at first, is that Pepe Sylvia is clearly Charlie's illiterate way of reading Pennsylvania.

If Mike Elias feels like crying over what he "has" to give up for Cease, then he simply won't make the trade. These people are not being rational.

Upvoted just for the great handle. Welcome on board.

That's how you know we have the best offer. Ortiz is the headliner. And there is no other top 50 prospect coming along. Live with it. Or, like I said, F off and have fun with you 19 year old pitchers.

Something I've never understood is that by all accounts Ortiz is the best defensive SS of the group, and likely the worst hitter. So why on Earth would anyone be penciling in Ortiz at 2b or 3b? That makes no sense.

Ya'll posting over there? Tell them to F off and have fun with their 19 year old A ball pitchers.

Bidding against yourself.

Is that what they told you?

DL Hall is probably a more apt comp for Pepiot.

He'd be our best pitching prospect, sure, but he was nowhere near as highly ranked as Grayson was coming up through the minors.