Pickles
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Posts posted by Pickles
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Just now, maybenxtyr said:
Which is why I didn't like the O'Hearn deal. They never brought him in to play in Norfolk...or Odor...or Hicks, even when he showed that he had contributed about all he had to contribute, they still ran him out there until the end. This team generally doesn't pay a player to sit or play elsewhere.
O'Hearn started the year in AAA so they clearly didn't have a problem paying him that salary to sit in AAA.
He got more playing time as opportunity and performance dictated.
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Just now, Can_of_corn said:
Have you seen some of the folks we've elected?
LOL. It's hard to argue with that.
Those people had bases though, or poltical machines. Cuban has nothing. Who does he appeal to exactly?
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1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:
I think it's more likely Cuban will be one of the politicans within the next five years. He also left Shark Tank.
I can't imagine Mark Cuban getting elected to anything.
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As an interesting comparison, Mark Cuban sold a majority share in the Mavericks to Miriam Adelson, of Sands Casino fortune today.
It's a surprising move, as he'd claimed in the past he would never sell the team, but he has been angling to get a new arena, and have it situated in the middle of an "entertainment" complex, complete with sports betting. The Adelson family would obviously be an ideal partner in such a venture.
Gambling is, of course, illegal in Texas. A conservative supermajority in the state government, fueled in no small part by evangelical Christians, should be dead set against legalizing gambling.
Who wants to bet Cuban and Adelson will be buying some politicians and gambling will be legal in the state in five years?
The cultural rot and corruption continues unabated.
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2 minutes ago, ChicagoTerp said:
I would prefer that too. Just think we may need to outbid some teams in these trades, given the cost of FA starters nowadays.
Who are these other packages? We broke down a Braves one the other day, and for the life of me, Cowser and Ortiz, is way better.
We don't have to bid against ourselves.
Very few teams are even in a position to offer two top 100 prospects for Dylan Cease. We don't need to be stupid.
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Just now, RZNJ said:
Cowser + Norby. Call it the mini monster package.
I'd do that.
We have two left handed hitting shortstops longterm. I want to keep Ortiz.
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4 minutes ago, ChicagoTerp said:
It's a lot to give up, but we've got depth at those positions. Neither Cowser nor Cease are as valuable as they were a year ago. So both may benefit from a change of scenery.
I don't think Cowser's lost much value.
I'm willing to give up Cowser. But as a second piece it should be more like Norby, or Stowers- the thing I know I don't need.
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2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:
Just out of curiosity, what do you plan on doing with Cowser & Ortiz? Are they simply AAA depth to start the year?
I'd probably give a majority of starts at SS to Ortiz, and depending on performance, I'd give one of Cowser or Kjerstad pretty regular ABs between the COF and DH.
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2 minutes ago, Frobby said:
If you get two prospects that good, it won’t be from Mike Elias, I suspect. But I still think a Cowser-Ortiz deal could happen. I personally doubt we’ll get Cease for less than that, in a market like this.
Personally, I'd wait until the deadline then.
I'm not comfortable giving those two up for Cease.
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Just now, waroriole said:
Not sure what that has to do with increasing payroll.
The payroll increased too.
So what's the complaint?
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Just now, Can_of_corn said:
I don't recall anyone on the forum, or anywhere else, thinking that Elias meant "We will continue to not spend but the team will contend for the AL East title." when he said "lift off".
I think it's revisionist history.
Everyone thought he meant they were going to be at least somewhat aggressive in trying to improve the team from the outside.
A lot went right for the team in 2023, it would be foolish to think it will go right again next year.
I thought it would mean exactly what he meant:
They were now entering the competitive period of the cycle.
Sure looked pretty competitive to me.
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8 minutes ago, Frobby said:
Get your priorities straight! It’s much more important to spend a lot of money in the offseason than have a winning team.
Sure felt like lift off to me.
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4 minutes ago, waroriole said:
It does when you consider he said last year was lift off. It’s all talk.
You missed that 101 wins and AL East title?
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Who? LOL.
This fully fits in with my expectations for the Orioles. They are almost certainly targeting people that aren't any of our radars. And if the last few years are evidence, they are going to be pretty good.
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3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:
I did say I think Westburg would carry more value right now. Grissom not having a position has to matter, especially if the bat isn’t going to be good enough to justify an OF or DH spot.
Now, if the bat will be, I agree the value is similar but there seems to be some question about that.
Personally, I'd have Grissom below the other two, solely because of positional concerns, but they're all of a range.
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18 hours ago, HakunaSakata said:
You made a Pete Rose comparision. Rose's biggested attribute was his ability to hit for average. Grissom hit for a higher average than Westburg last season so technically Grissom was closer to a Pete Rose player profile than Westburg, no? And to add to that Grissom hit .330 at AAA last season versus Westburg's .295. To say that the two aren't at least somewhat comparable prospects from at least a hitting perspective seems pretty ridiculous.
I made a "Pete Rose" comparison because I was looking for somebody who played 2nd/3rd who was an offensive force. I wan't making a legitimate comparison. Nothing to do with actually batting average or performance.
You have effectively moved the goalposts. Nobody said they weren't similar prospects or values. I simply said Westburg outperformed Grissom in the major leagues last year, and no amount of cherrypicking RBIs or BA changes that.
I actually think Grissom, Westburg, and Ortiz are all similarly valued. I also think it supports my broader point: The White Sox aren't going to get a second piece on that level.
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22 minutes ago, HakunaSakata said:
Huh? They're basically the Spider-men pointing at each other meme if you project out Grissom's numbes over Westburg's ABs.
Wesburg - .260 / 3 HRs / 23 RBI / .311 OBP (in 208 ABs)
Grissom - .280 / 0 HRs / 9 RBI / .313 OBP (in 75 ABs)
That's some clever accounting there.
Grissom had an OPS+ of 78. Westburg at 100.
There was a significant difference between their major league performances.
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5 minutes ago, HakunaSakata said:
Maybe a lil bit, but he's also older and didn't exactly light the world on fire after he was promoted last season.
He looked like Pete Rose compared to Grissom's 23.
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1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:
I saw one guy throw that out. Is it floating around anywhere else?
And I agree. If Cowser and Ortiz is put on the table, that’s going to be the best deal and there are other iterations of a deal without any of our top 5 where we can look good and trade a lot for him.
I just saw two tweets or so proposing that and then multiple speculating on that package. Nothing formal from anyone in any kind of know.
IMO, there's no need to put Cowser/Kjerstad and Ortiz on the table.
They won't get a prospect as good as Cowser or Kjerstad. They should consider themselves lucky to get one so highly ranked.
They can go get a bunch of 19 year old pitchers if they want; see how that works out for them.
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So, a package from ATL for Cease floating around twitter right now is Vaughn Grissom, Hurston Waldrep, and Owen Murphy.
I think ChicagoWhiteSoxFan is going to be disappointed.
Vaughan snuck into the top 100 globally before his call up in 2022, but performed poorly in MLB in 23, (admittedly showed well in AAA) and is no longer eligible for prospect rankings. Joey Ortiz would seem to be more highly valued.
Hurston Waldrep snuck into the top 100 as the 100th prospect for MLB.com this fall. He like Murphy are both pitchers taken later in the first round; Murphy a prep arm. The O's don't have a decent comp for either, but neither is seen as a prospect on the level of Kjerstad or Cowser.
What I said several pages ago stands true so far: The White Sox are not going to get a better prospect than Kjerstad and Cowser, and they won't be getting a second piece near the level of Joey Ortiz, and in fact, wouldn 't be surprised to see the best piece they recieve being in Ortiz' general range.
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1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:
Adley didn't win ROTY.
OH!
You meant that he wouldn't win or finish second in ROTY voting.
I get it now.
Why didn't you say that?
BTW I'm pretty sure Elias thought he had kept Adley down long enough that he couldn't pull off his second place finish so it might not be as easy to walk the tightrope as you think.
God, you're pedantic.
I actually think they were going to start the season with Adley on the roster but he was injured and they brought him up after a short rehab with no regards to service time.
I don't think it's a tightrope that is all that difficult to walk.
IMO, they're going to give him the Gunnar treatment, where he'll come up in August and he'll get 129 ABs, or they'll keep him down to July and not worry about the rookie status but get the "extra" year.
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10 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:
Sure. So why would they pull an Adley again?
That's just stupid and I don't think any of us think Elias is stupid.
That's the whole point. They're not going to pull that again.
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2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:
Why would they want to do that?
The top two finishers in Rookie of the Year voting in each league are automatically awarded a full year of service, regardless of how much they actually accrued that year.
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46 minutes ago, CaptainRedbeard said:
Holliday is projected for 126 games currently, which is about what he would get if called up right after the April deadline for an extra year of control. That amount is done manually and they’ll change the depth charts manually based on whatever happens. If he’s sent down to start the year they’ll probably set him to a much lower number until he is called back up.
Holliday is projected to be the best infielder behind Gunnar so the total projected team WAR will only decrease if he’s sent down. But the difference between him and Joey Ortiz or even Urias/Mateo is probably not super large.
He'll stay down long enough to ensure that he's not the rookie of the year. That's my prediction.
Would you trade Cowser and Ortiz for Cease (December follow up)?
in Orioles Talk
Posted
I personally wouldn't do it.
If they do it, then they must think higher of Cease than I do.