7Mo

Look at the pitching. There will be 5 AL teams make the playoffs. The 5th rated pitching staff gives up 3.79 earned runs per game. We're at 5.89 earned runs per game. We've given up 272 more earned runs. That's not a little bit. That's a massive difference. We've also scored 114 runs less than the 5th highest scoring team in the AL. If you look at it in terms of an 82 win season, we score half a run per game less than the middle of the road offenses. We give up 1.51 more earned runs per game. I hope Grayson is the greatest thing since sliced bread. And I honestly think Adley will help the pitching staff. But without 4-5 more upgrades to the pitching staff, we still have a long way to go.

And I don't think that's a problem. Find a near-MLB ready bullpen guy plus a Jean Pinto X 2 and I'd be happy with that return.

Did De Los Santos have an option year remaining?

Well said.

I'm kinda the other way. I'm a believer in Hays. Of course you shop him and if a good offer is on the table, I'd take it. But I think Hays can build value from where he is today. Or you might be 100% correct.

With Santander, I think you have to consider whether it's a good bet to see if he has a great start next year and trade him by the deadline. Of course, if a good offer is made this offseason, I'd take it. I just tend to think he'll have more value in July than he will in a few months.

I'd love to have "facts" to trot out to support my beliefs, same as you would. Other than player by player example, I'm not sure what you would like to see. But I see what every organization does with their prospects. None have adopted your approach. David Clyde failed because his confidence was crushed. His words. You're right about Wander and Vlad being signed at young ages. Doesn't matter IMO. Until you're facing the guys you face in MiLB, you can't be making the same kind of adjustments I'm talking about. No amount of high school AB's or even college AB's preps you for professional challenges. Adley played at a very high level in college and faced very good college competition. That doesn't mean he was ready for MLB on draft day no more than Asa Lacy or Max Meyer or Spencer Torkelson or Joey Bart or Reid Detmers was ready for MLB. Why is there no organization anywhere following your idea? Why does every organization follow essentially the same path if MiLB doesn't have value for the highest level prospects? Surely you would agree that every organization would love to bring up that young, inexpensive prospect as soon as possible. Is it a service time issue for each of the top 100 prospects? Do you believe that if the next CBA eliminates service time as an issue, then most or all of the top 100 immediately jump to the MLB roster? I'm sorry that you believe I was "disingenuous". Not my intention. I honestly thought you believed every prospect should just be promoted to MLB or be cut loose or just understand that they're worthless. That seems like the message from your previous posts.

You've made your thoughts about promoting guys well known. Given your thoughts, why shouldn't we just do away with 2 levels of the minor league system and promote the top 20 guys? Understanding that you disagree, I think there is great value in hitters facing progressively better pitchers. That's what happens in the minor league system. Learning plate discipline, recognizing pitches, adjusting swings and learning yourself as a hitter is done more successfully in steps rather than being thrown in the deep end. At the major league level, once pitchers find a book on what a hitter can't handle, they can and will use that over and over. A hitter in the minor leagues will have opportunities to face some of that and learn how to recognize and adjust. At the major league level, he'll just have that weakness shoved down his throat to a point of failure. Confidence is a significant thing for a player. I've seen your posts and SG's posts saying if a hitter loses confidence, he wasn't mentally strong enough anyway. I disagree with that. I believe that ignores reality. What happened with Cedric Mullins? Do you believe he could have made the changes and adjustments he did had he stayed with the big club? He needed to re-set. He needed to make some adjustments away from the pressure of major league games. It happens every year with about every organization. Why was Jarred Kelenic sent down? Why isn't Luis Gil in the major league rotation? Players have to make adjustments at each level. Gunnar initially struggled at A+ and now appears to have made adjustments. Can you honestly say you think he would be better off at the major league level now? He would get eaten alive. His confidence would be shot. Wander Franco was a can't miss prospect. But Tampa kept him in MiLB for 829 AB's. Vlad Guerrero was can't miss. 1075 MiLB AB's. No one suggests Gunnar is that kind of can't miss guy. He's got 500 MiLB AB's. Maybe the rest of the parade is out of step and you're the only one right. But I doubt it.

Completely agree with what is said about Gunnar here. He needs the AA and AAA development time and that cannot be done successfully at the major league level.

So when you said you "broke it so many times", you meant you severely dislocated it?

So did you break your thumb or no?

How many times did you break your left thumb?

Is it possible that Gunnar's arrival in MLB has to do with his development and NOT service time?

Isn't everything you've posted in this thread "to me", the same as what you accuse SG of? You're not citing anything except your own opinions.

I just want one that knows the league and can catch a good game.

12 catchers signed for $2M or less this offseason with a long list that remained available. https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/free-agents/2021/catcher/

Fair question but given that the signing likely won't happen until January, there's no way to know right now. Each January, there are veteran catchers still looking for a deal. I'd guess the O's have a list of 6-8 guys who might be available. Some teams will pay more and grab 1-2 but I think there are options available every offseason. Given that I don't think the O's will be spending more than they have to for a backup catcher, I think we have to wait and see who'll take a deal then.

I hope next year matters in terms of Rutsch and a veteran defensive catcher helping the young pitching staff start to find their way. To me, that could make a much bigger difference than a backup catcher getting 1-2 more hits a month.

Not 95 but a good assortment. Not sure how accurate "prep baseball report" is. Young is imposing as he looks down on hitters from this 6-foot-6, 210-pound frame. He has simple mechanics, making it possible for him to repeat with his long frame. He has a short, compact arm action with a clean and continuous arm circle that comes through a high-3/4 slot. He has a low- to mid-90s fastball, getting some arm-side action on a two-seamer while the four-seamer plays better at the top of the zone. He’s always had feel for an average changeup with solid command, but he made a big step when he added a slider this spring. It’s average at this point, but has good spin and solid depth, working down and away from right-handed hitters. Young is an intense competitor and profiles as a No. 3 starter, but would fit nicely in a bullpen role where his stuff would play up in short stints. https://www.prepbaseballreport.com/news/NC/2020-MLB-Draft-Others-To-Know-1549368270

Good post Wildcard. I agree with most. Where I disagree, we've discussed and I'm not arguing that you're wrong, just giving my thoughts. I think Mancini is traded this offseason. I think Severino is DFA'ed. I think the focus at catcher will be to bring in a solid, veteran defensive catcher to help teach Rutschman. And if he hits .172, you live with it for the defensive knowledge and tips. And that won't cost more than $1M. I don't think $40M is spent, but likely $15M to $20M. More a year later. This is the first step. I don't really think... I don't really believe...but I hope we sign 4 FA pitchers that are hybrid guys who can go get 9-12 outs. Not starters with the price tag they carry but bulk guys. Not guys who cost $5M but guys that cost $2M. Add a SS, maybe even Iglesias at $2M or so. I just don't see this as being a year they sign ANY FA to a high dollar deal. If a good package is offered for Santander, I think he's dealt but I think his value today is such that you bring him back with the belief that he can build value by the trade deadline. If the idea is you're trying to build assets so you can trade, I like Urias and Mateo. I think you need to give them chances to prove they have value. That would mean you only sign one infielder. Do we believe Mateo can play short or do you sign a SS and let Mateo build value elsewhere? You've outlined the pitchers coming back. IMO, Lopez can become valuable as a 3 inning guy. Give Ellis time to prove he's valuable or not. We'll have a long offseason to discuss back and forth.

For reasons I don't understand, the Cardinals love Bader so they're not looking for a CF'er. But I'd take the prospects coming back in either of those deals. I don't think either team would offer that much. Means to the Cards might make more sense. They have a lot invested in Goldschmidt and Arenado and they need cheap pitching. Their defense allows them to pitch Jon Lester and JA Happ effectively so Means could really be special for them. While Gorman is blocked by Arenado, they've decided to try to convert him to second. They really covet Gorman. I don't think he's available. I really hope Mullins has that much value to where deals like this are possible.

No doubt the returns this year have been poor. I see other organizations saying they feel like 2020 had a more detrimental affect on pitchers than hitters. The loss of the MiLB season has been harmful. And as both you and Wildcard have pointed out, some of these guys could come back stronger. Zimmerman looked good before injury. Akin has looked good lately. I also think it's fair to look at how big a load the O's are asking these guys to carry. I have no doubt that any other team in baseball would have yanked Akin when he gave up the first hit. I doubt many teams at all would have sent him back for the 7th but for the no-hitter. Tampa is asking their young guys to get 3 outs ,4 outs, 9 outs. We're asking our guy to go finish the 7th because we don't have anyone reliable to finish for him. You say you want more out of Holt, Elias and the organization. That's fair. I doubt anyone on this board would disagree with that. But other organizations have guys up and down too. Developing pitchers isn't a straight line of progress. It's not uncommon for young guys to come up, get kicked around, go back to AAA, figure some stuff out and come back. Again and again. When you focus on the O's, it's easy to lose sight that other teams don't have that straight line progress all the time. Other than Rodriguez, I'm not sure we have pitchers who are going to come up and dominate. I think all will take their lumps, to one degree or another. Elias said the other day that he wanted this year to evaluate who he has. I hope they look at it and realize they've put a lot on the young guys and take the offseason to bring in 3-4 guys who can go get 9-12 outs to help the prospects. I'd feel pretty good about asking Akin or Zimmerman to go get 9-12 outs. To do that, we need some more guys who can be counted on. Asking Akin and Zimm to go finish 7 innings is a pretty big ask to me at this stage.

Do you agree that there's a difference in what Hyde does and what the front office does?

Who should he be pitching?

So you want the media to ask Hyde why his roster sucks?