Criticism of Duquette

[Redskins Rick]

Think you way way off base here.

Of course the Hangout was buzzing about the O's, its a forum about the O's lol

America is a football nation.

Baseball...Apple Pie and Chevrolet.

Until Madden came along with their video game. America was a Baseball Nation. Now the youngsters are more into Football.

[video=youtube;OgIxzAngFzs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgIxzAngFzs

[SilentJames]

I love baseball. My son has love for it to as a result of having gone to games and watched them with me.

All that said your dead on about the generational numbers. It should scare Baseball. Among my sons friends the vast majority are rabid Football fans first...NFL or College and then NBA/College BB would rank second. MLB has been relegated in their group to a sport like hockey that you folllow along and maybe get into if your team has a good season.

Thanks Bud Selig for all your leadership and being inventive in exposing the youth of America to baseball and its joys.

I don't think that is true at all. MLB attendance numbers continue to rise and ratings are always high. The MLB has done a very good job incorporating social media and making it very easy, and cheap, to follow your team. MLB at Bat is the best app, to me.

Local variations in attendance and ratings, et al, have more to do with local conditions and traditions than anything the commissioner does. Baltimore has always been a football town, it was Coltstown for generations. The Orioles didn't get here (their current incarnation) until 1954. The big deal is the Orioles had a generation where they were the only game in town, and that leads to the perception among some that this is a bsaeball town.

Baltimore loves its teams, this is a major league sports town. But Football will always be its first love.

[Redskins Rick]

I don't think that is true at all. MLB attendance numbers continue to rise and ratings are always high. The MLB has done a very good job incorporating social media and making it very easy, and cheap, to follow your team. MLB at Bat is the best app, to me.

Local variations in attendance and ratings, et al, have more to do with local conditions and traditions than anything the commissioner does. Baltimore has always been a football town, it was Coltstown for generations. The Orioles didn't get here (their current incarnation) until 1954. The big deal is the Orioles had a generation where they were the only game in town, and that leads to the perception among some that this is a bsaeball town.

Baltimore loves its teams, this is a major league sports town. But Football will always be its first love.

Go back to the 60s. Both teams were winning championships. It was Baseball through and through.

[SilentJames]

Baseball...Apple Pie and Chevrolet.

Until Madden came along with their video game. America was a Baseball Nation. Now the youngsters are more into Football.

[video=youtube;OgIxzAngFzs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgIxzAngFzs

Football skyrockets in popularity after World War II and the explosion of television. Baseball is great on the radio, but football is tailor-made for TV it works great on TV. As TV supplanted radio as the dominant form of communication/ entertainment in America - football took over in America's minds.

Football lends itself to television spectacle, every game is an event. And the early fathers of football knew this and did it WELL, very very well.

Baseball doesn't work like that, it can't work like that. There are simply too many games for that type of exposure.

[SilentJames]

Go back to the 60s. Both teams were winning championships. It was Baseball through and through.

The attendance numbers don't back that up.

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teams/baltatte.shtml

in 1966 the Orioles average attendance/ game was a little more than 15,000. In fact the Orioles wouldn't crack 20,000 a game until 1979. And the Orioles weren't reliably over 20K a game until after the Colts left.

[Redskins Rick]

Football skyrockets in popularity after World War II and the explosion of television. Baseball is great on the radio, but football is tailor-made for TV it works great on TV. As TV supplanted radio as the dominant form of communication/ entertainment in America - football took over in America's minds.

Football lends itself to television spectacle, every game is an event. And the early fathers of football knew this and did it WELL, very very well.

Baseball doesn't work like that, it can't work like that. There are simply too many games for that type of exposure.

baseball works very well for cable, which is why all 162 games are televised and in some cases, the game is replayed later, which is great for those up late at night.

[SteveO]

Irsay left because of many reasons, one of which, the town wasn't as supportive then.

The Orioles have multiple championships.

Like I said, nothing against the Ravens, and they do have two SB rings, but honestly, take a poll, Baltimore is a baseball town.

Walk onto a corner in LA, and ask the guy, What sport team comes to mind, when I say Baltimore. 9 times out of 10, it will be the Orioles.

So if Pete had left when we were having nights with 10k paid attendance then you would say the Orioles left because the town was not supportive.

Irsay left because he provided the city with a miserable product among other things. Thats something I would think as an O's fan we would all understand.

Maybe in your world baseball is king to some extent it will always be king in mine. In reality as I said, an average MNF game destroys a PLAYOFF MLB game. That should tell you all you need to know about the popularity and standing of the two games in the minds of the average American.

Baltimore is no different. I just need my two eyes to see the vast difference in the amount of gear being worn by the fan bases. Its not even remotely close.

The Ravens have been consistently in the playoffs, won 2 Championships and my guess is that you go to any street corner and ask anyone under the age of 30 in Baltimore ...>Whose your team ? Ravens will come up 7-8/10 time min.

[Redskins Rick]

The attendance numbers don't back that up.

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teams/baltatte.shtml

in 1966 the Orioles average attendance/ game was a little more than 15,000. In fact the Orioles wouldn't crack 20,000 a game until 1979. And the Orioles weren't reliably over 20K a game until after the Colts left.

Let's be fair, football was only 7 home games at the time vs 81

I never went to a football game as a child, harder to get tickets and more costly.

Yet, at the same time, went to 6-8 games a summer for baseball.

[russ snyder]

I am with you on that one.

I tend to think there is an Ebb and flow to these things.

What baseball needs is a dynamic commissioner who understands that the sport is and needs to be sold to potential customers.

Standing on tradition is great to some extent, it is also a way for baseball to remain standing still as other sports pass them by in the consciousness of Americans.

You have to adjust and find ways to connect to the next generation of fans. Baseball has failed in an epic way in that regard IMO. That's a failure in leadership from the commissioner on down.

I think that baseball is trying. You have inter-league play in season, an expanded playoff system, and a replay system that will incorporate many more on field calls the next couple of seasons. Like Silent Jim says, football is the ultimate TV sport. Baseball is a slower paced game where the defense controls the ball. My son is 13 and loves to play baseball. He'd much rather watch a game in person, ( Orioles, Fredreick Keys, etc) than to watch it on TV. He'll generally watch a full ravens game or a college basketball game. I just think that these games play better on TV, particularly to younger fans.

[SilentJames]

baseball works very well for cable, which is why all 162 games are televised and in some cases, the game is replayed later, which is great for those up late at night.

But you have to PAY for cable. Football can be watched by anyone for free, mostly.

[scOtt]

You are right. It is tough to gamble on baseball.

I am quite frightened that football will be legislated out of business in my lifetime over health concerns.

I could see it legislated into business, but then go out of business because no one wants to watch flag or touch football.

[SteveO]

baseball works very well for cable, which is why all 162 games are televised and in some cases, the game is replayed later, which is great for those up late at night.

I love baseball, I love watching it, I love going to the games. That said we are in a vast vast minority. Given the chance to watch an O's game on TV versus a random football game its the O's game 10/10

Football is king on TV though. The ratings back that up. You do realize that Monday Night Football even when the Ravens are not involved destroys MASN Orioles broadcasts in the ratings.

Baseball has a serious serious disconnect with the Gen X crowd. Its a big problem for them and if they want the game to grow they need to bring in somene inventive who understands that to run it.

[Redskins Rick]

But you have to PAY for cable. Football can be watched by anyone for free, mostly.

You can? Depends on your cable provider.

NFL Channel and the Red zone are considered preminums channels by some providers.

[SilentJames]

Let's be fair, football was only 7 home games at the time vs 81

I never went to a football game as a child, harder to get tickets and more costly.

Yet, at the same time, went to 6-8 games a summer for baseball.

Yes this is true, but there-in lies the point. The Orioles aren't regularly drawing more than league average in attendance until AFTER the Colts leave. Its simple econ, the Colts take a certain amount of entertainment dollars out of the pool. when they leave, the entertainment dollars get re-allocated back to the Orioles.

A generation of people grew up with the Orioles as THE team. They grew up with Cal, Brady, D-veaux, Orsulak, Tettleton, Hoiles, Moose, Scottie Erickson, Lee Smith, et al. The Orioles and Camden were IT, and they were THE PLACE TO BE. Especially for someone growing up in the mind-numbing suburban wasteland of Harford County like me.

But, historically, the evidence is too strong to ignore. Baltimore was a football town. The Colts were king for a very very long time. it is the reason why the COLTS marching band survived. It is the reason why people STILL hate Irsay, it is the reason why I still cringe when I see the Colts succeed. It is why I know people get upset when they see Indi players wearing those awesome Colts throwback shirts in practice.

This is not to denigrate the Orioles in any way, but it reality of the sports and the logistics of how they are marketed and how they CAN be marketed to the populace.

[Redskins Rick]

I love baseball, I love watching it, I love going to the games. That said we are in a vast vast minority. Given the chance to watch an O's game on TV versus a random football game its the O's game 10/10

Football is king on TV though. The ratings back that up. You do realize that Monday Night Football even when the Ravens are not involved destroys MASN Orioles broadcasts in the ratings.

Baseball has a serious serious disconnect with the Gen X crowd. Its a big problem for them and if they want the game to grow they need to bring in somene inventive who understands that to run it.

They need somebody to build a video game and stick somebody's name on it, like they did with Madden. Madden is why Gen X love the game of football, they buy the game, new every single year and they play so much, its hard to get them off the box.