Jump to content

Roch Kubatko: Orioles Want an Outfielder


weams

Recommended Posts

4 hours ago, FlipTheBird said:

He's not waiting out the market, he's waiting out players. If it's Bourn they're after, no worries. There's no real market for Michael Bourn. DD is just waiting for him to accept that. Fans just need to be patient.

That's said better than I could. Waiting out specific players, not dumpster diving.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 106
  • Created
  • Last Reply
1 hour ago, Roll Tide said:

If not for his glove Flaherty is a AAAA player. There is no advantage to moving him to the outfield. Specifically his bat doesn't play.

Thats not true.

When Flaherty played for Manny while on the DL and getting regular at bats at the end of 2014, he batted .288 with OPS of .804.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, scOtt said:

That's said better than I could. Waiting out specific players, not dumpster diving.

Too many of the anti-DD folks here just see what they want to every offseason. His acquisitions this winter haven't been dumpster diving. He went out and got a catcher. He successfully talked Trumbo down to a very friendly deal. He dumped a player nobody wanted (Gallardo) for a fairly competent corner outfielder, rather than dealing one of his stud relief pitchers.

There are some very solid 4th OF types left out there, and it's a buyer's market. He can keep waiting and land Bourn at limited cost. Heck, they might even be waiting for Pagan.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

Thats not true.

When Flaherty played for Manny while on the DL and getting regular at bats at the end of 2014, he batted .288 with OPS of .804.

 

Really? We're going to use those 66 at bats (given that you're referencing Sept. 2014, where he had 66 at bats and hit .288 with an .804 OPS) overrule the other 1,050 at bats he's had in his career?

Ryan Flaherty is a light-hitting supersub. If he couldn't play so many positions he wouldn't be on a Major League roster. It's all that protects him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, FlipTheBird said:

Too many of the anti-DD folks here just see what they want to every offseason. His acquisitions this winter haven't been dumpster diving. He went out and got a catcher. He successfully talked Trumbo down to a very friendly deal. He dumped a player nobody wanted (Gallardo) for a fairly competent corner outfielder, rather than dealing one of his stud relief pitchers.

There are some very solid 4th OF types left out there, and it's a buyer's market. He can keep waiting and land Bourn at limited cost. Heck, they might even be waiting for Pagan.

You think that in a universe where Carter signs for 1/3 3/37.5 is "very friendly"?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, FlipTheBird said:

Really? We're going to use those 66 at bats (given that you're referencing Sept. 2014, where he had 66 at bats and hit .288 with an .804 OPS) overrule the other 1,050 at bats he's had in his career?

Ryan Flaherty is a light-hitting supersub. If he couldn't play so many positions he wouldn't be on a Major League roster. It's all that protects him.

Toss in the added 36 bats for the playoffs that same year.

Playing regularly is easier to get into the grove of things, then riding the bench.

Of course, if he had a stronger bat, he would be a starter somewhere.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, FlipTheBird said:

Are you just bouncing around to every thread complaining about the Trumbo contract in comparison to Carter's?

Nope.  But I don't see how you can say with a straight face that Trumbo's deal is "very friendly" given the market this offseason for one dimensional sluggers.

If you want more examples I got 'em.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Redskins Rick said:

Toss in the added 36 bats for the playoffs that same year.

Playing regularly is easier to get into the grove of things, then riding the bench.

Of course, if he had a stronger bat, he would be a starter somewhere.

 

Given that he's never going to be a regular on the Orioles, your point's kind of moot. Ryan Flaherty is not a good player. He's midling bench material.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, FlipTheBird said:

Given that he's never going to be a regular on the Orioles, your point's kind of moot. Ryan Flaherty is not a good player. He's midling bench material.

You have to have guys like Flaherty on the bench, and better a light bat, then no bat like David Lough.

And consider how long he has been here providing that important role, I do consider him a regular Orioles.

But, thats just me.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

45 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

You have to have guys like Flaherty on the bench, and better a light bat, then no bat like David Lough.

And consider how long he has been here providing that important role, I do consider him a regular Orioles.

But, thats just me.

 

Of course you need a reserve infielder. But Ryan Flaherty isn't a good one. He's an average reserve infield, at the absolute best. He may be slightly below average.

By the way, David Lough has a career OPS of .671. Ryan Flaherty has a career OPS of .643.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, FlipTheBird said:

Of course you need a reserve infielder. But Ryan Flaherty isn't a good one. He's an average reserve infield, at the absolute best. He may be slightly below average.

By the way, David Lough has a career OPS of .671. Ryan Flaherty has a career OPS of .643.

Thanks, you saved me the trouble of looking it up.    Of course, a reserve OF will usually outhit a utility infielder.    

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, FlipTheBird said:

Of course you need a reserve infielder. But Ryan Flaherty isn't a good one. He's an average reserve infield, at the absolute best. He may be slightly below average.

By the way, David Lough has a career OPS of .671. Ryan Flaherty has a career OPS of .643.

you and I will have to agree to disagree.

Ryan plays plus defense at least 3 positions, and thats not something found often in MLB.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

you and I will have to agree to disagree.

Ryan plays plus defense at least 3 positions, and thats not something found often in MLB.

I'll give you 2 positions, 3B and 2B. I'd say that isn't rare from a utility infielder. 

He can play first but so can basically everyone. He can stand at short and play it at a well below average level. He can also stand in the outfield and play it poorly too. Again, none of that all that rare.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.




  • Posts

    • dWAR is just the run value for defense added with the defensive adjustment.  Corner OF spots have a -7.5 run adjustment, while CF has a +2.5 adjustment over 150 games.    Since Cowser played both CF and the corners they pro-rate his time at each to calculate his defensive adjustment. 
    • Just to be clear, though, fWAR also includes a substantial adjustment for position, including a negative one for Cowser.  For a clearer example on that front, as the chart posted higher on this page indicates, Carlos Santana had a +14 OAA — which is the source data that fWAR’s defensive component is based on. That 14 outs above average equates to 11-12 (they use different values on this for some reason) runs better than the average 1B.  So does Santana have a 12.0 defensive value, per fWAR? He does not. That’s because they adjust his defensive value downward to reflect that he’s playing a less difficult/valuable position. In this case, that adjustment comes out to -11.0 runs, as you can see here:   So despite apparently having a bona fide Gold Glove season, Santana’s Fielding Runs value (FanGraphs’ equivalent to dWAR) is barely above average, at 1.1 runs.    Any good WAR calculation is going to adjust for position. Being a good 1B just isn’t worth as much as being an average SS or catcher. Just as being a good LF isn’t worth as much as being an average CF. Every outfielder can play LF — only the best outfielders can play CF.  Where the nuance/context shows up here is with Cowser’s unique situation. Playing LF in OPACY, with all that ground to cover, is not the same as playing LF at Fenway or Yankee Stadium. Treating Cowser’s “position” as equivalent to Tyler O’Neill’s, for example, is not fair. The degree of difficulty is much, much higher at OPACY’s LF, and so the adjustment seems out of whack for him. That’s the one place where I’d say the bWAR value is “unfair” to Cowser.
    • Wait a second here, the reason he's -0.1 in bb-ref dwar is because they're using drs to track his defensive run value.  He's worth 6.6 runs in defense according to fangraphs, which includes adjustments for position, which would give him a fangraphs defensive war of +0.7.
    • A little funny to have provided descriptions of the hits (“weak” single; “500 foot” HR). FIP doesn’t care about any of that either, so it’s kind of an odd thing to add in an effort to make ERA look bad.  Come in, strike out the first hitter, then give up three 108 MPH rocket doubles off the wall. FIP thinks you were absolutely outstanding, and it’s a shame your pathetic defense and/or sheer bad luck let you down. Next time you’ll (probably) get the outcomes you deserve. They’re both flawed. So is xFIP. So is SIERA. So is RA/9. So is WPA. So is xERA. None of them are perfect measures of how a pitcher’s actual performance was, because there’s way too much context and too many variables for any one metric to really encompass.  But when I’m thinking about awards, for me at least, it ends up having to be about the actual outcomes. I don’t really care what a hitter’s xWOBA is when I’m thinking about MVP, and the same is true for pitchers. Did you get the outs? Did the runs score? That’s the “value” that translates to the scoreboard and, ultimately, to the standings. So I think the B-R side of it is more sensible for awards.  I definitely take into account the types of factors that you (and other pitching fWAR advocates) reference as flaws. So if a guy plays in front of a particular bad defense or had a particularly high percentage of inherited runners score, I’d absolutely adjust my take to incorporate that info. And I also 100% go to Fangraphs first when I’m trying to figure out which pitchers we should acquire (i.e., for forward looking purposes).  But I just can’t bring myself say that my Cy Young is just whichever guy had the best ratio of Ks to BBs to HRs over a threshold number of innings. As @Frobby said, it just distills out too much of what actually happened.
    • We were all a lot younger in 2005.  No one wanted to believe Canseco cause he’s a smarmy guy. Like I said, he was the only one telling the truth. It wasn’t a leap of faith to see McGwire up there and Sosa up there and think “yeah, those guys were juicing” but then suddenly look at Raffy and think he was completely innocent.  It’s a sad story. The guy should be in Hall of Fame yet 500 homers and 3,000 hits are gone like a fart in the wind cause his legacy is wagging his finger and thinking he couldn’t get caught.  Don’t fly too close to the sun.  
    • I think if we get the fun sprinkler loving Gunnar that was in the dugout yesterday, I don’t think we have to worry about him pressing. He seemed loose and feeling good with the other guys he was with, like Kremer.
    • I was a lot younger back then, but that betrayal hit really hard because he had been painting himself as literally holier than thou, and shook his finger to a congressional committee and then barely 2 weeks later failed the test.
  • Popular Contributors

×
×
  • Create New...