It's July 2- Internationale!

[Frobby]

14 minutes ago, hoosiers said:

I blame our FO either way.  Either these decisions are made by our FO or our FO has failed to convince our owner of an essential talent acquisition pipeline.  I mean, AM convinced PA to go in one direction and spend something to create some infrastructure to scout and sign prospects - and it was working.  The funds were there when AM was GM.  The funds were there for Reyes and Peralta and the $ wasted on the Cubans (Miranda, Leyva, Urrutia, Alvarez - $700k-$800k each).  You can't deny that DD had the time AND funds in the early years to develop something internationally.  DD won't spend his slot $, but will go spend $3M on mediocre Cubans?  

Seems to me that if you are going to give MacPhail credit for EdRod, then you have to give Duquette credit for Miranda, who has produced 2.4 WAR so far.    I realize his FIP isn't great and maybe he'll fade, but so far he has produced, unlike Urrutia and Alvarez (we'll see about Leyva).

[TradeAngelos]

19 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Seems to me that if you are going to give MacPhail credit for EdRod, then you have to give Duquette credit for Miranda, who has produced 2.4 WAR so far.    I realize his FIP isn't great and maybe he'll fade, but so far he has produced, unlike Urrutia and Alvarez (we'll see about Leyva).

Now that isn't how it works when you are an angry fan with an ax to grind Frobby! That would require somewhat rational, coherent thinking.

I would point all the naysayers to Camden Depot twitter feed today. Read it and enlighten yourselves about the truth on the Duquette era. (of course they won't, but might as well give it a try). 

[McLovin]

I go to a lot of MiLB games. It's striking how different the Orioles affiliate's appear in terms of diversity (or lack thereof). Every team they play, you see the typical stereotypical cliques milling about. Not the O's. The Ironbirds may as well change their name to the "White Boys"... Aberdeen regularly fields an all-white lineup...and Jaylen Ferguson... It's like they are trying hard to imitate the 1959 Red Sox...

[sportsfan8703]

On 7/2/2017 at 9:15 AM, Otter said:

The most frustrating part is that with the new system, you don't have to give outrageous money to get the top international prospects.  These bonuses are the same as 1st and 2nd round picks get.  We can give an 18 year old Canadian shortstop 1.3M, but won't do it for any of these prospects?  $37M for Trumbo is fine, but $1M for a high upside/high risk prospect is too much??

Good post. Seems pretty dumb when you think about it. We've been pretty good at drafting recently too. We have seen some international guys work out when we do spend money. 

Did we end up trading every international slot away?

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Good post. Seems pretty dumb when you think about it. We've been pretty good at drafting recently too. We have seen some international guys work out when we do spend money. 

Did we end up trading every international slot away?

Nobody knows.    But I doubt it.

[hoosiers]

2 hours ago, Frobby said:

Seems to me that if you are going to give MacPhail credit for EdRod, then you have to give Duquette credit for Miranda, who has produced 2.4 WAR so far.    I realize his FIP isn't great and maybe he'll fade, but so far he has produced, unlike Urrutia and Alvarez (we'll see about Leyva).

I appreciate the clarification.  Admittedly, I had lost track of Miranda and saw his name on a list with the other guys and assumed incorrectly the return was negligible.  Obviously, his production/success would charge the narrative of DD's Cuban investments to be successful ones in sum,  Which gets back to the main points I have been discussing:

 - what exactly is the status of our international investments because it appears  our investment $s are declining here - which would be disappointing

 - where is the international success at the prospect level from LatAm slot/cap signings DD was supposed to bring here - he has had several years of investing internationally

 - more generally, why is the organization not participating in the international sandbox on a level like the rest of mlb give the investment return and our GM's track record and stated intentions.  Market size has nothing to do with the international investment as we have seen the Twins, Padres and Rays emerge as important players.  Even our former GM, who advised our owner on investing internationally, is investing at the top of the international market today.

 

[sportsfan8703]

We aren't players in the Dominican because Miguel Sano wanted $3 million. We should've given him $20 million looking back. 

It's all ownership. I think DD should be fired but you see him find ways to try and get Carribean guys in the system somehow. Waiver claims, rule 5 draft, milb FA.

We need a philosophy change by the owner. It's like believing in sabermetrics. Maybe Brady can get through to him. 

[Frobby]

As to the whole debate about whether our lack of investment in the Latin American market is due to Angelos or Duquette, the truth is, nobody here really knows the full story.    I do think that with the relatively new cap on international spending, that would dictate being more active in that market, rather than less.

[sportsfan8703]

Is it really safer to draft a HS senior than sign a 16 year old from Latin America?

We can have a top 5 draft, but still lose ground to most of the league because we aren't participating in Latin America.  

[hoosiers]

5 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Is it really safer to draft a HS senior than sign a 16 year old from Latin America?

We can have a top 5 draft, but still lose ground to most of the league because we aren't participating in Latin America.  

Yes, it is much safer to draft a US HS senior because that prospect is 18 and has been followed for two more years and has that much less projection.

It is pretty amazing how much the US HS draft lists change just between the winter before the draft and the draft.  Imagine how much they change between 16 and 18 in the US.  I imagine it is worse in LatAm projecting 16 because these kids are protected and promoted in that Buscone system - and I imagine a lot of evaluating is done when the prospects are 15 in LatAm.  Project that.  This is also why I believe there could be some good value in the LatAm market for the 17 and 18 year olds who go through growth spurts and develop physically after 16. 

[Frobby]

2 hours ago, hoosiers said:

Yes, it is much safer to draft a US HS senior because that prospect is 18 and has been followed for two more years and has that much less projection.

It is pretty amazing how much the US HS draft lists change just between the winter before the draft and the draft.  Imagine how much they change between 16 and 18 in the US.  I imagine it is worse in LatAm projecting 16 because these kids are protected and promoted in that Buscone system - and I imagine a lot of evaluating is done when the prospects are 15 in LatAm.  Project that.  This is also why I believe there could be some good value in the LatAm market for the 17 and 18 year olds who go through growth spurts and develop physically after 16. 

And that's where the O's get their Latin American players, for the most part.  

[Can_of_corn]

A 23 year old reliever in A ball?  Dan has given up even enough trying to make it look good.

[weams]

 

[gmelson26]

So let's assume (as most do) that Peter Angelos is behind us not using the international system.  If anyone's got even a passing knowledge of the inside situation, is there any indication that once PA is no longer in charge, his sons would be willing to participate in it?

[Three Run Homer]

On 7/7/2017 at 8:07 AM, Frobby said:

As to the whole debate about whether our lack of investment in the Latin American market is due to Angelos or Duquette, the truth is, nobody here really knows the full story.    I do think that with the relatively new cap on international spending, that would dictate being more active in that market, rather than less.

True, the cap should reduce the cost of signing international players, but the new system also gives teams an opportunity to trade their international slots, which increases the benefit of not signing players.