Tony-OH

Just to be clear, I'm 100% behind the Burnes trade and like it better than a deal for Cease that would include Cowser or Kjerstad. Just saying that I don't think Ortiz would have headlined a deal for two years of Cease.

I read that as, if you come way down on your asking price for Cease we'll listen, but we've got our guy.

Even if you don't believe in Hall as a starter (I think everyone knows where I stand on this) he still has the upside of being a lights out closer. So let's call Hall and closer and Ortiz and average major league shortstop. That's pretty much 1A and 1B and a pretty good get for one year of any pitcher. And I'm not even counting the lottery ticket with the 34th pick.

You do know the Orioles would get two years of Cease though, right? I doubt Mayo or Basallo were ever in consideration by Elias, but I would have sent Kjerstad or Cowser as the headliner for two years of Cease. I know Cease is coming off a down year a bit, but he's a great bounce back candidate.

Well the guy does have 162k posts. Of course if all the boards were combined, SG and Frobby probably have close to 400k each.

And that is different from how many other "classic" threads?

You know you can actually have an opinion and not act like a total and utter jerk? I really don't even disagree with you besides your attacks on the board and fans as some kind of brainwashed idiots. Like you are the only one that sees what you see. I actually agree with you that JA has been pocketing money and there is no reason for the team to have such a low payroll. The MLB TV money alone is huge influx of cash that others teams have been using to buy talent while Elias has most like had to stay on the cheap. I do think Rubenstein will change that, but the Nationals cut into the market and the Orioles are bordered by Philadelphia fans to the North, Pirates fans out in Western, MD, Nats fans and other team fans around DC now (for the most part), and only MLB thinks NC has Orioles fans nowadays. So can the Orioles be middle of the pack? Probably. Will they be under new ownership. We all hope so. Try and just be happy the family you love so much will be out of running the Orioles finally and stop now taking your wonderful personality and attack other fans that actually share that view.

What are you talking about? Stop generalizing the board, it makes you look silly. You act like everyone here thinks the Orioles are not going to spend more than what JA has done. That's ridiculous and mischaracterizes most of the board.

I certainly think Elias has been working the Burnes deal for a lot longer than a couple of days. While I don't know the answer, it seems to make sense that he was able to pull the trigger or decided to pull the trigger on the Burnes deal for two reasons. 1) He was was given the go ahead to spend the $15 million when the deal was done. 2) He thinks there is a chance that he could extend him now with Rubenstein as owner vice with Scrooge McDuck running things like he was going to lose his inheritance if he spent more than the bare minimum.

I know you are a bit of an Angelos family apologist, but come on now, that's not a high bar to get over when it comes to his father running things. JA has done one thing right and that was hiring Elias. Now that's a major thing and worthy of getting props for, but his sliminess overall just hurts even that accomplishment.

Yeah, he told me it was driving him nuts. But he just needed some time away.

Is it possible that he was not able to add $15 million to the payroll until JA got his payday?

I had to imagine the Brewers thought Hall had starting pitcher upside when they pulled this deal. But they will soon understand why that won't work long term. Still, I'm sure he's excited to have another shot at the rotation. Willy Adames is an incredible defensive shortstop with a plus arm, something Ortiz does not have. The Brewers must really believe in Ortiz's bat to think of him at 3B, but in my mind, a lot of Ortiz's value comes from his defense. The Brewers probably look at Ortiz as Adames' long term replacement since he becomes a free agent after the 2024 season. I wish them both well. They are two good guys who deserve a shot, but from an Orioles perspective, they were the kinds of guys they are able to move due to their prospect depth.

I do think that's a reasonable estimation and probably something Elias would not be too interested in due to the injury risk factor with pitcher's entering their 30s. Saying that, Burnes has stayed pretty healthy during his career and he doesn't really have a ton of innings on him, so maybe he is the guy Elias thinks can anchor this rotation, especially since Bradish and Rodriquez will be relatively cheap over at least 3-5 years of that contract. I'm so used to the Orioles being under the Angelos-led budget limitations that I've never really thought about it for the Orioles. But I do drool at the thoughts of a Burnes, Bradish, GRod top three for next 4-5 years. We're just in uncharted territory and while I do think Rubenstein is going to spend money, we do know that the market limitations most likely will keep him from spending like a drunken sailor. I'm a big believer in Burnes stuff and think of him as a TOR. Bradish and GRod may turn into them, but Burnes is already one and without a ton of innings on him, who's to say he can't be very effective deep into his 30's?

I would be ok going up to 4 years extension, to include a bump this year which would make it a five year deal. I would not be interested in 7-year deal after the season.

I don't think he told Elias to make a trade, but I do wonder if Elias thinks he might be able to extend him with the new owners and was more willing to deal Ortiz and Hall for him because of that.

I'm certainly not going comfortable signing a 30 year old pitcher to a 7 year contract, so if that's what the market brings him, I will thank him for his service and move on, especially since the Orioles have the prospect to still get his replacement if GRod or Bradish hasn't turned into him by then. But if he would sign a 4-year extension, I think the Orioles have to consider it if he looks like the same guy this season.

I voted for the price was fair but could have voted for given up more depending on what players. If we were talking a Hudson Haskin-type guy, I would have packed his bags along with the others.

Yikes. I mean, you're entitled to your opinion, but to say he Elias should be embarrassed for acquiring one of the best starting pitchers on a contending team that needed a TOR, and only gave up his 6th best prospect, a talented left-hander reliever with a long injury history, and a draft pick is pretty harsh. If the Orioles win the World Series and Burnes leaves, should Elias still be embarrassed? You have to trade talent to get talent and this is the kind of talent you give up at the trading deadline for a Burnes-type rental. Elias got him for a whole year at least. Burnes gets to be an Orioles, hopefully likes it here, and the new owner is willing to extend him before he hits free agency. But if the Orioles win the World Series, it doesn't matter what becomes of Ortiz, Hall and the draft pick, and I like Ortiz and Hall (as a reliever) a lot.

I think we all preferred Burnes over Cease, but most thought Burnes would cost too much. If I thought Burnes was available for what we got him for, he certainly would have been at the top of the list, even with just one season left. I think Elias thinks he has a chance of extending Burnes now that he has a new owner and pulled the trigger.

Right, but I think the term "red flags" is too aggressive.

These are not "red flags." His Pitching run value was 96th percentile. Even if he's "fallen" a bit since being the best pitcher in baseball for a few seasons, he was still one of teh best. Look at these numbers: If these are red flags, sign me up for some more red flags!

I highly doubt an extra year of control of Ortiz made the difference in acquiring Burnes.

The expectation was that he would make the team but the Orioles are still fine without him. possible scenarios: 3B: Westburg SS: Gunnar 2B: Urias UTL: Mateo 3B: Mayo SS: Gunnar 2B: Westburg UTL: Mateo 3B: Westburg SS: Gunnar 2B: Holliday Utl: Mateo 3B: Westburg SS: Gunnar 2B: Norby Utl: Mateo