Jammer7

I don’t disagree. They have built excellent depth. Going forward, we should look for opportunities to take pitchers with significant arm talent.

Would the current development group have had better success with that group? We’ll never know for sure, but I think so. Even in a crap shoot, there are groups who do it better than the others. The former regime was way behind the times.

Roger Clemens went to University of Texas and Verlander went to ODU. But your point is certainly valid. It has to be judicious, I think. Look at Andrew Painter with the Phillies right now. Had an amazing year in the minors at 19.

The only thing about pitcher failure rates that I have seen over the years is who does the best job? And why? To say only one in four pitchers in the BA Top 100 succeeded is meaningful. But going forward, who does it best and why would be good to know. Cleveland, Tampa, Dodgers, Houston…Orioles? Are we in that realm?

This ^^^^^^

I agree with a lot of this. We don’t know anything yet. Hard to get acclimated when you play so sparingly. Honestly, he just looks like the game is moving too fast for him right now. I would not write him off, and I don’t really think Moose was either. Stowers and Vavra both look sketchy on defense. Vavra has a nice short stroke. Stowers’ swing looks very long and his approach has been poor. He really needs to tighten that swing up, at least in certain situations. Looks like he is caught in-between as well.

I can’t share the optimism, but I applaud those of you clinging to slim hope. Something happened to this team in the past two weeks. They just look deflated since about the time Gunnar booted the balls at 2B, not to bash him. Just tough timing there. The Jays look about like they should have all along. That is a talented group over there, and they are built for a playoff run. We’re just not built that way, honestly. Our starters have been doing good things, but they have been exposed. The pen is over-worked. Ced, Adley and Santander just aren’t enough offense.

Quality back up, and a big sturdy guy. Thanks for sharing that.

I don’t know much about him, but Adley needs a legitimate back up. He is wearing down some. Gallagher is supposed to be a very good defender. It was just a thought.

Yeah, maybe not. But they might want to get a look at the Gallagher kid as a back up for next year. IDK, just a thought. Adley needs a capable back up. Robby seems like a great dude, but it’s apparent the team has hit a wall.

Why would they use a 40 man roster spot for that? They could just bring up Handley if Ramirez and Roberts aren’t good enough, no? Could it be that Chirinos is heading out? Gallagher up to replace him?

I agree at this point. This team is done with the playoff run. Release Aguilar, Chirinos and Odor, bring up a catcher like Gallagher with Nevin and whoever else. Good point about Westburg.

Fair point. Hyde has said so, recently. He has struggled since about the time he made that dive on the road trip. For me, the bigger issue seems more mechanical. Maybe you’re correct.

The dive you mentioned was a big one, but 6-7 two seamers off his wrists and hands too. But that is how they will pitch him as long as he dives in and tries to yank the ball. The bottom line is when you dive in, the head moves, the body moves. It makes it harder to hit when your eyes are moving like that. Anything that moves in toward him will give him fits.

The only thing I strongly disagree with is Mateo to a UT role. If you want to replace one of the top 5 defensive SS’s in the league, fine, trade him. He is the type of hitter that needs everyday type reps. If he doesn’t play everyday, he’ll lose value as his somewhat limited output will decline. Some guys are just don’t like it. Whether it’s ego or whatever, I believe he thinks he is a SS and it matters to him. Ortiz might be the SS, if they move Mateo, with Gunnar at 3B. Westburg and Urias can battle for 2B or a UT role. Maybe they bring in a Trey Turner or someone like that to play 2B. Vavra has not shown any MLB defensive ability yet for me. Maybe it’s there and he needs to develop it more. IDK. Stowers has to get stronger. He looks lost in the box a lot. He has a big learning curve ahead, I think. I love Hays’ game, but if he cannot get past the pull happy dive-in mode he has adopted, he is not a long term dude for me. I like the direction Santander and Ced are heading.

For the first time all season, I turned off the game in the top of 5. I needed a break. Our batters, except for Mullins, seemed to have no shot against Bello. Tired of our offense making every pitcher look like Nolan Ryan every night. They looked lifeless and I’ve seen enough of that lately. They grinded out a tough win. Hat tip to Gunnar and the pen.

Oh no, not willing to die on that hill.

Gunnar is fantastic, but young inexperienced and untested in big games, especially at the MLB level. He has been knocked as being occasionally inconsistent. He probably puts a lot of pressure on himself. But, it is what it is. If you are actually trying to win, you put guys that turn outs into outs on the field. Pitchers had to throw more pitches and runs scored. Felt bad for the kid, and certainly not a knock on his future.

Agreed on Urias, but he is one of the best 3B in MLB today. He is first in DRS right now in all MLB. Not that I am big on that, or any defensive metric, but he has been a very good 3B according to these eyes. I am a bit hesitant to move him to play 2B everyday until next season. I don’t throw bricks at Elias or Hyde often, but putting Gunnar at 2B was a bad call. Odor will go at the end of this season, probably right at .200. These guys earned this shot. I say let them finish it out. Gunnar should play some at 3B and SS to let the main starters rest. He is a stud, and the future. Any positive reps he gets will help. Negative reps, sometimes those cause negative effects as well. I am sure he felt like he let the guys down. Everyone makes errors, those were just big and led to runs each time. Odor plays a very solid MLB 2B and shifts differently than most 2B. He is flawed, sure. But calling him a “winning spirit guy” dismisses what he actually brings on the positive side as some anecdotal garbage. First, everyone here wanted to see Vavra there. His defense is just not good enough. Then, everyone thinks Gunnar should be there. He kicks a few that really hurt. Both are better hitters, but both cost us runs that hurt on defense. If you allow more runs than you produce, and your pitchers have to throw more pitches, a lot more thanks to unmade plays, that adds up. Meanwhile, the guy who was there everyday and is quite responsible for getting us here to contention is the guy so many loathe. This isn’t fantasy baseball, defense and toughness and the ability to grind matter. Ask an actual major league player, they know. I know this is an unpopular take. But if you know the game, you know that what he has brought to this point is valuable beyond any numbers other than the W column. He should not be back next year, as I think his value as a teacher is complete. And now, those offensive stats are pretty bad. He is still working counts fairly well, with a lot of swing and miss. He is the guy the other teammates want there. Without him, you could tell they were a different team. Deflated. Start 2023 with someone else there, but for now, I keep him right there at 2B. Reward him, and the rest of the team by leaving him in there. It’s what they want. You can see it, if you care to look. BT, all of this is not directed at you. I respect your opinions and appreciate your thoughts here.

Hall is definitely not ready. And maybe that is the point. For him to see just how much he needs to improve to be the stud he should be. I agree with you on Hall, but Watkins isn’t fooling good teams. This time of year, the game changes. Watkins is not a starter on a playoff team for me.

The Odor hate here is predictable. Gunnar boots two double plays and cost us a game, but it’s Odor who gets lambasted as the problem? In fairness, Gunnar has not played much 2B and it is ridiculous that they put him in that position in a supposed playoff run. I cannot believe that was Hyde’s decision. Terrible decision by the front office, IMO. Gunnar’s confidence was a bit shaken after that too. You could see it in his body language. The team became deflated because of it. All we read here is how bad Odor is. The team wants Odor at 2B every day. The pitchers need him there. He is their heart and soul. That guy busts it every night and they respect him. Gunnar is the future, absolutely. An amazing talented young player. But they should play this team out, win or lose with the guys who got you here. Mendoza line be damned. The guy has shown this team how to play winning baseball.

You do know that is a parody account, right? He did not say anything like that.

It’s a little different, not that much. He’ll be great, but this is tough for a young guy like him to come into this situation. That said, it’s a ground ball, one that Odor turns two. Odor would have had two the other time as well. It is what it is.

Henderson is going to be great. Odor’s value is glaring today.

Very good post. I think there is great value in the numbers provided by FanGraphs and BRef and Savant. Several posters, including yourself, quote those things well and make sense of it in an easy to read format. There are some things that are difficult to quantify. Even Sig has said so. When I have watched Mateo and Odor play together, there is a professionalism and consistency to Mateo’s game that was missing previously. Hyde has alluded to it when speaking about Odor and Mateo. You see the interactions between Mateo, Odor, Chirinos and Santander and there is a comfort there with them. I am very confident in saying Mateo and Santander are better because of the presence of Odor and Chirinos. It really has the same kind of things that Cal has always talked about. Preparation and a professional consistent approach to every aspect every day.