Jammer7

Yeah, no doubt LSU is an attractive option. Maybe LSU has a plan to help him advance his swing decisions and approach issues. As well as get him healthy. It’s ballsy to do this. Jud Fabian lost a lot of money, but I’m starting to think he really wants to be an Oriole. Maybe Young doesn’t. Shrugs…

Yeah, not sure what they offered him. I guess he thinks he can get healthy and back to first round form with the plan he has in place. Too bad, good luck to him, though.

They have normally tried to have guys make their debut appearance in a situation they can have the best chance of success. Like @MurphDoggpointed out, he isn’t great against LHP. I’d like to see him too. Just a thought, but maybe there is a team looking at Odor. It may not be likely, just a thought.

IDK, the team Buck inherited was really bad. That is an interesting question. They were both absolutely awful. And the organization was in the dark ages throughout the time.

Rough news for Druw. I hope he heals quickly in time for Spring 2023.

He was 2-5 tonight, with an RBI. You’re right, he should get a hit every time up. Vavra will. And we’ll win every game when our closer gives up two runs in the 10th. Whatever… I can see you don’t understand it. It’s cool. Have a good night.

To answer your question, no, I do not think they would be where they are without him, or a veteran like him, to do as I described. There is not a metric to show it, but baseball men know it is real. I am surprised you would discount it so readily. That is why they talk about it on young teams that rise up. The defensive improvement for Mateo is definitely, in part, thanks to Odor. Every sport has it’s need for a role player, a glue guy, that makes everyone else better. It may be time soon for Odor to move on. Perhaps his job here is done. IDK. His numbers are terrible, I agree. When he goes the other way, he’s actually productive. He tries to do too much, needs an approach change, at least in some situations. Easier to just DFA him and put an unproven, but talented, prospect out there. Vavra is an unproven hitter at this level, but should be better after his learning curve. But can he stay healthy? The team record without him, maybe it is an after effect of what groundwork he has helped to lay out for the younger guys. He also came in and pinch hit and won some games that way. Odor is not a guy who has value to a contender, no. But for a struggling group of castoffs, who have been cast aside from various organizations and underachieved, his leadership has made a big difference. He makes the other players more accountable, but also more comfortable out there. To your point, however, there comes a time when that player’s effectiveness cannot justify his weak production. Perhaps they are at that time.

I agree on Walters. He is nasty, and it’s easy ched. It sounds like Young needs to get healthy and to find an approach more suited to his physicality and ability. I think he’s a talent you take a shot at. I think they could present a legitimate case to Young that they develop hitters well now, and he would be better off beginning his pro career now and have a chance to make MLb money sooner. If the remaining figure is $1.4 million for McLean, Showalter, Young and Walters, it might be tough to get all four. McLean should be an over slot as an eligible Sophomore. The rest, I have no idea what it takes. Stotle said it might take seven figures on Young. If that is the case, I think they’re out on that.

Wow. I’m surprised to see this comment from you. Odor’s stats are poor, absolutely. I have no argument, based on statistics. The main reason he has had an impact is that he has mentored Mateo, and probably Urias, about how to go about their daily business as a pro ball player. The coaches can only teach just so much. Having Roogie there next to them has had a bigger impact than many fans think. About the only thing I would add to what you said about his positives is that he turns a very good DP. He is a very flawed offensive player. His approach is dreadful. Somehow, he ends up in the middle of so many clutch situations despite that. Odor and Chirinos have set a tone for the way they play the game. The way they conduct themselves and roll with the daily grind in their preparation. They have helped establish a culture of winning. The Orioles have done that in the minor leagues, and made it an emphasis about learning to play the game the way they want. But at the MLB level, they have a bunch of guys from other systems that needed that example set. Get everyone on the same page. The players have much greater value than they did before. Other teams will want some of these younger vets in trades as we promote our own guys. They are building a winning culture. This is how it has to be done. It doesn’t just happen overnight. Odor’s and Chirinos’ impact might be much less as each day goes by, and perhaps it is time to move them both along. Bring in Nottingham or Bemboom or whomever. Play Vavra everyday and see what we have. But I don’t think anyone who knows baseball can dismiss the contributions of Odor and Chirinos as being anything less than crucial to developing this team’s winning culture. Hyde talks about it often for a reason.

My 11 year old ball player just told me that he thinks the hanging cutter is Watkins favorite pitch. He said he thinks Watkins has uncanny command of it, being that he seems to often put it in the middle of the plate. Smart kid.

Yeah, but both Bautista and Wells are built like Offensive Tackles, so those numbers fit well. Vavra is a WR.

Nice explanation. Additionally, the harder the CB, the later the break, and usually not as much of a breaker. Slower, big breakers can get hung and sent a long way into the night. Chris Tillman was an example of a guy whose high FB and CB mix was great for a time. When he threw the CB with good arm speed out of the same slot, it was difficult for the hitter to pick up. Personally, I’m not a big fan of hard CB’s. Shoulder issues seem to follow guys with higher slots. I like the CB around 78-80 more as a show me pitch, but it has to be commanded. Look what Judge did to Kremer’s well hung CB. Yikes!

I thought that too about Wagner, but then he said that if he was a better defender he would have given him a first round grade. So, we’ll see what Max can do in the system.

I thought this was fairly well done. https://medium.com/@tieranbaseball/baltimore-orioles-draft-analysis-e5ba71c0454c

For now, yes sir. Not sure how the Orioles see it, but that’s my opinion. He knows he is electric and in his prime years. He’s mercurial in his emotions. I see it when a called strike he disagrees with. I have not seen Henderson or Westburg much at SS, being completely honest. I do think it will be difficult for either to be better defensively than Mateo right now. Ideally, let Mateo keep improving at SS, then move him when someone makes him expendable. Whomever that is. With all of the young pitchers we are ushering in, I believe there is great value in turning as many outs into outs as possible. Elias and Hyde may feel differently, but that is my inflation-depreciated $.02.

I agree with the first part. I don’t believe they will try to put Mateo in a UT bench role. He needs to play everyday. He is improving with the bat. The reason he is so raw is that Oakland/SD brought him up and sat him. Sporadic playing time stunted his development. He is too good defensively at the most important position on the field. The bat has much more upside, too much to just put him on the bench. Guys like him do not do well in a reserve role. In his mind, he’s a SS, an excellent everyday SS. I think he’s right. He is too proud to take a bench role well at this point. They’ll have an absolute mess on their hands.

No real argument with your points here. Let me clarify. I was just saying what I thought possible, not necessarily likely. I don’t think they are going to move Lyles just to move him. A guy like him certainly has value, even if it is in a role that he has with Baltimore. In a season with so many injuries to pitchers, there might be a suitor for him. Either way, I’m good with. Odor may or may not be of any real value. Depends on the team, and if they need an everyday 2B, without much production, but has a penchant for the dramatic. Urias isn’t necessarily going anywhere, but a suitor might want a guy that brings infield flexibility and has several years of control. I have liked him since we saw him in 2020. The only reason I really include him is he is hot right now and we have Henderson and Westburg and Vavra. They need to have room to come up. Someone has to go. To put him in a UT role is a loss of value, IMO. They are not going to bring up the prospects to sit them either. Something has to give. And really, trading him now would be selling lower than the value next year should bring. I think he is about to take off. The last paragraph of your post, is a very sound guess to what they likely do. I would move Tate, if possible. I would only move Lopez if a great return.

I can see moving Mancini, an impending FA. I can see moving Lyles, who has a somewhat pricey option. I can see moving Tate and Lopez. I can understand moving Odor, Urias, Santander and/or maybe even Mullins, who might be better to wait until the Winter. I doubt that Elias trades all of those eight players at the deadline, but perhaps 3-5. I would not want to move Bautista, Perez, Mateo, Rutschman, Hays or Mountcastle.

Mateo’s play in 2022 has been a major difference in this team. This team is exciting to watch, and he is a big part of it. Since his injury, he had struggled. It appears he is back to where he was before that collision. I wanted him to start everyday at SS, but I had no idea he would be this good, defensively. Flaherty spoke very highly of him last year. I wanted to see what all of that was about, and he has brought us joy. I cannot think of a more physically gifted Oriole SS. I never saw Luis Aparicio, and only saw a few years of Mark Belanger. Miguel Tejada was not this quick and tooled up. Ripken, Bordick and Hardy were all great for their steadiness and offensive output, but the athleticism of Mateo is amazing. I was also wrong about Odor. I believe he has had a vital role in many things, but he is clearly Mateo’s mentor. I see him talking with him frequently throughout a game. Odor is clearly far more valuable than playing above average defense. His toughness, competitiveness and clutch hitting have all been great. But his mentorship of Mateo may be his biggest contribution. I wonder what is next for our infield. With the rise and impending promotions of Westburg, Henderson and Vavra, now what? Mateo, Urias and Odor have been fun to watch in 2022, whatever their Oriole fate.

You may be correct, but I hope not. I don’t have a lot of confidence he’ll remain at 3B, but I would hope he would be sent to a corner OF first. His arm is a weapon. He may end up at 1B, eventually.

Great to see Joey producing at that level again. The shoulder surgery he had probably had more impact on him than most fans know. He undoubtedly lost some strength, and he could not work out or prepare for the season like he normally would. Lots of people ready to doubt him, write him off as a UT player, at best.

I agree that Rocker is a big question mark. Not just from his past injuries, but that delivery needs some work to alleviate concerns of future elbow and shoulder problems. However, they cannot say they did not know what they were up against. I do believe Rocker shared his medical records with teams. I think it was a bold move. If it was the Orioles that did this, not picking after 1-3 until the fourth round, I would be good with it. The handling of pitchers in this organization gives me more confidence that the arms would be developed properly. And yet there would still be a higher probability that Rocker never makes it near his ceiling. The Rangers are not known for their pitcher development. Maybe they are changing things down there, but I don’t see it as a good move for them. But it’s bold, for sure. They got two high upside first round picks, and a ton of risk.

Absolutely. We’ll see what happens. The rehab of his shoulder injury likely was an issue for him. Sell him on getting healthy and mashing in Delmarva in 2023.

I cannot imagine that the Orioles have $1 million to give him. They will likely have a few hundred thousand to throw at him. They will sit down with him and show him their development plan for him. They will tell him how they will help him make the most of his tools, and why he should begin playing professional baseball right now instead of going to LSU and playing another season of college. I would not bet against Mike Elias on this. I am not saying it is going to get done, but I spoke to someone in the industry who said that Mike Elias is very persuasive in these kinds of situation.

I’m good with that velo. He releases the ball from about 52 feet from the plate, so it looks like 110 mph. I’m exaggerating a little, but can you imagine the elbows and knee caps coming at you, and the downhill plane? Teach him a bit of a cross fire delivery and he’ll be coming at the batter from a ridiculous angle. If he’s athletic and can repeat that delivery, we’ll see if he can be consistent with something with spin.