LookinUp

What the heck, I'm bumping this thread because I think the discussion has changed somewhat from what a lot of people were thinking in March.

No clue, but the standard 5 year contract, if that's what he got, would have a little over 1 more year in it I think.

I started a thread about Elias many months ago and it kinda got poo-poo'd, but the most important thing for ownership to do is to resign him. Others can get plucked. He needs to stay.

Doesn't include Stowers. I think the national guys aren't on him like the OH is.

So wait a day or two. But this isn’t about a year of service time. It’s about keeping him eligible to get us a draft pick after next year. If they ignore the playoff race so they can hold him back again next year to get another year of service time, it will be inexcusable.

You have to wonder how open minded leadership is at this point. Stowers would have been better over the last couple of months probably than Hays. Would he be better than Santander? You could make that argument. Would he be better than Mancini was? Most likely. What if they gave Mountcastle's ABs to him? Stowers definitely would have been better. Mullins? Yup. But I think there's still faith in our outfield and Mountcastle. And I think they love Vavra and value great defense at the end of the game. I get why they're not promoting Stowers is all I'm saying even though, right now, I'm penciling him in for 150 games in RF next year and expecting that to be better than we've gotten there this year.

By the way, I'm not sure I buy the idea that he's assured to be as healthy moving forward as he has been in the past. There's still a risk that you're paying $11 million for a guy who has TJ surgery in April. Maybe it's less likely with him. I don't know, but he's still a pitcher.

Just to be clear, this team is one offseason away from being at a place where this is a very common argument at multiple levels. Next year we'll have Henderson and Westburg as starters in the IF. That means we're having a regular conversation about Urias and Mateo being on the bench. Right now they're two of our highest WAR guys. The outfield will be very crowded unless at least two guys are moved. Vavra will have a hard time getting ABs too. So what I'm saying is some of these guys are going to have to figure out how to be role players who can come off the bench and be great. Stowers might be that guy. Why not now?

It all depends on what else you add. If you add 2 starters plus Rodriguez, it it worth keeping Lyles as a starter over Wells or Kremer? At $11 million? Ok, so they go to the pen and you get rid of who from there? Is that upgrade worth $11 million? One could argue that having Lyles as your #5 starter really lets you be careful with your other young starters, saves the pen, etc. It's a fair argument for sure. That's the case for him.

The Rays are such a great organization, but they're holding on by the skin of their teeth at this point. I actually don't think they're going to be there for the 3rd wild card in the end. I expect it to be a competition against one of the AL Central teams. That said, yes 2 of 3 would be huge for the reasons stated in the OP.

Yeah, I expect the pen to be strengthened from our own guys. The biggest team need is starters. As you and others have pointed out, if we can get even one upgrade, and we get to add Rodriguez, the entire staff gets so much better. Get two legit upgrades plus Rodriguez, hoping on Hall and waiting on Means, and you're onto something. Payroll flexibility is there. Depth of prospects/ML players for trades is there. Just do it.

I think this thread is making an obvious point, but about the wrong player. The obvious upgrade for this team isn't Stowers, it's Henderson for Nevin. That lets you do L/R at 2B (Urias/Odor) and still have Odor there for defense if you really want it. Stowers will take innings and ABs from Hays, Santander and Vavra. You could argue also from Mullins or Mountcastle, depending on how the defensive alignment changes. I want Stowers here, but he's not a clear upgrade over those guys. It's marginal. The upgrade is Henderson. 8/23 can't get here soon enough.

This is where I stand too. I think one thing most of us agree on is our position players are pretty much set for next year. You can always argue we could trade for an upgrade here or there, but it isn't a necessity at this point. That means that most of the focus of the offseason needs to be on improving our starting pitching. Doing so should further strengthen our bullpen. Where does Lyles fit? I have no idea. Is there value in a guy who can give innings like Lyles does as the #4/5 starter, yes. Is it worth the money? That depends on what else we do. So the Lyles discussion has to happen in the context of other things. That's just not a discussion that I have enough information on yet.

So the Braves have called up their top guy. Different strokes for different folks.

Welk's missed a lot of time. Could in theory be a guy who comes around still.

There's a $2 million buyout, right? So the difference between keeping him or cutting him is $9 million. I think he's really valuable to this rotation. I'd rather focus on other options this offseason, but to dismiss the idea that we will keep him would be wrong. We're in such a weird payroll spot too. We could very well get rid of even mildly expensive guys this offseason and end up with starting pitchers comprising like 80% of our payroll. Just saying that it's all up in the air. But $9 million on a one year deal with a known quantity isn't efficient, but also isn't a bank breaker.

You need to do 40 now. This system is deeper than it's ever been in my lifetime. Still under rated, IMO.

I've said this elsewhere, but if I were Elias, I'd make sure all of: Hall Stowers Henderson Rodriguez are on the roster and eligible for the playoffs. We'd be a different team by playoff time, but one that is more capable of going toe to toe with the big boys. I'd figure out the innings as I go. The Rays had David Price come out of the bullpen for one of their runs. He was electric. We can do that too.

Two more hits, two more k's last night. He's starting to look like a better prospect than Markakis. Similar hit tool, good OBP, better outfielder, more power, but ks more. This guy will start a lot of games for Baltimore next year. Two of Mullins, Hays, Santander and Stowers are going to have to end up somewhere else (position or team). Cowser's likely our best future outfielder at this point.

What is the rule? If we bring up Henderson now, do we lose a year of control versus bringing him up at the end of the year? Or is this just about whether he's eligible for awards next year that would net a draft pick the year after?

I find it very difficult to believe that Elias changed the wall so the O's can spend on free agent pitching. In fact, I'd wager that was one of the least important outcomes to Elias. I think it's much more likely that he did it so our own pitchers can be successful and in an effort to create a legitimate homefield advantage by building a team that fits our park and doesn't get hurt in other parks.

Just bring your rotary phone instead. I'm sure it'll still work. In all seriousness, the O's should be able to accommodate this for sure. Printing a receipt of your purchase and bringing it to the ticket window has to work, right? Just might want to get there a little early in case you run into a hassle.

Yeah. This will become a thing for sure when they fill the park.

We've been better than all 3 teams going on 3 months now. Time for perceptions to change.