SBNation:An Alternative to the 3K Hit Club

[Can_of_corn]

http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2013/3/16/4112094/an-alternative-to-the-3000-hit-club-and-hits-in-general

This piece is right in my wheelhouse. I have always been less then impressed by hit driven records.

The piece suggests using 4,500 Times Reaching Base (TOBwe) as the new milestone.

[Migrant Redbird]

It's an interesting article, but rather frivolous.

I don't think it takes much argument to this community to explain why base hits alone should not be used.

Used for what? I'm not aware of anything significant (except for hitting records) for which base hits are used "alone".

We already know that not all base hits are "equal". That's why statisticians developed stats like SLG, RISP, BABIP, etc. And, as far as I know, OBP and OPS remain in use, and are getting increasing attention from both media and fans. Times Reaching Base is interesting, but I don't think it tells us much that OBP hasn't already, as long as population sizes are taken into account.

To counter the fictitious harm resulting from "using base hits alone", the author conjures up an even worse remedy. He wants to count walks as equal to base hits, which they most certainly are not. Walks are valuable because (1) they put a potential run on base, (2) they avoid an out, and (3) they drive up a pitcher's pitch count, but the only time they're as valuable as a single is when the bases are empty.

Like I said, it's an interesting article and an enjoyable read, but the author tried to carry his idea too far.

[skanar]

It's an interesting article, but rather frivolous.

I don't think it takes much argument to this community to explain why base hits alone should not be used.

Used for what? I'm not aware of anything significant (except for hitting records) for which base hits are used "alone".

It sounded to me like the author was targeting his update at the HoF controversy/discussions of historical greatness. The 3000 hit club, 500 HR club, are all still things that people think about. It's nice to see an equivalent "club" that takes BBs etc. into account.

[DrungoHazewood]

To counter the fictitious harm resulting from "using base hits alone", the author conjures up an even worse remedy. He wants to count walks as equal to base hits, which they most certainly are not. Walks are valuable because (1) they put a potential run on base, (2) they avoid an out, and (3) they drive up a pitcher's pitch count, but the only time they're as valuable as a single is when the bases are empty.

So what's the harm in popularizing a metric that lumps hits and walks together? Why is that any worse than the problem with batting average and hits and OBP that counts a single as being as valuable as a home run or a triple? The main point is that a batter's primary responsiblity is not making an out. Everything you can do to not make an out is more productive than everything you do which makes an out. All the author is saying is that (hits + walks + HBP + CI) is a much better Big Round Number For People to Latch Onto than just hits. Which is true.

[glenn__davis]

All the author is saying is that (hits + walks + HBP + CI) is a much better Big Round Number For People to Latch Onto than just hits. Which is true.

The bolded is disturbingly RShackian of you. Please don't continue to go down this path.

[Migrant Redbird]

So what's the harm in popularizing a metric that lumps hits and walks together?

And is greater than sliced bread?

Like I said, TOBwe is interesting, but it's not the "silver bullet" the author presents it to be.

... Why is that any worse than the problem with batting average and hits and OBP that counts a single as being as valuable as a home run or a triple?

Most of us are aware of the limitations of those stats. Only simplistic fans, like the author, try to sell their new stat as being the end all solution.

... The main point is that a batter's primary responsiblity is not making an out. Everything you can do to not make an out is more productive than everything you do which makes an out. All the author is saying is that (hits + walks + HBP + CI) is a much better Big Round Number For People to Latch Onto than just hits. Which is true.

Not that much better because it's still ignoring SLG. And WAR is even better if you're trying to wrap everything up into a single value.

Again, I found TOBwe to be interesting, just not that revolutionary or insightful. The author is overselling it.